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I had a customer come round last night who wants me to frame a papryrus (roughly 6ft x 3ft)
Once I've added the mountboard border of 4" all round, that makes a frame 6ft 7" x 3ft 6" in Lion's L1521 that they've chosen.
Has anyone any thoughts on what I should use to hang the frame at the back - I'm initially thinking those thick, brass bridge plates that Lion sell and what I've used on large mirrors to date.
I'm also thinking of going the perspex route - don't really fancy trying to get a piece of glass that size home from the glazier's and then putting the frame together....!
As for hangers, you have several choices depending on the width and strength of the timber.
mirror hanger "d" rings - my first choice - as being cheap and easy
some sort of "French Cleat" either extruded metal or wood. Either has one section attached to the frame and the other attached to the wall. They interlock into one another and are held in place via gravity.
JFeig wrote:some sort of "French Cleat" either extruded metal or wood. Either has one section attached to the frame and the other attached to the wall. They interlock into one another and are held in place via gravity.
I've not come across that, but it sounds like a split batten. The moulding Bagelframer has chosen is quite shallow, so split battens might not be apropriate. It would be easier to use a deeper moulding - the Lion 1521 is going to be a bit wobbly to handle at that size. Also all these mouldings made from the more cruddy(and cheap!) tropical hardwoods like Ayous and Obeche are a PITA to hang when very heavy, as screws can pull out of them as the wood can easily compress under the weight. That said, if you are using Acrylic(and you'd be crazy not to with that moulding at that size), I'd say that 4 large strap hangers should hold it. The tricky part is getting the weight distributed evenly on the 2 straps on side. Another tip is to make sure the screws through the strap hangers go into different grain lines in the moulding - lots of screws in the same grain line and a large force working in the direction of the grain can split timber - this could put up your premium n your public liability insurance, if you know what i mean
Yes the method described on the newwoodworker.com link is called a split batten here(I'm assuming that's the same all over the UK, but i can only speak for Norf London).
The gizmo in the other link looks good - doesn't need so much space in the back of the frame. Does anyone know of a supplier for this on this side of the pond?
Sorry, I'm going to butt three boards together with a 45 deg bevel like I've done in the past and tape the reverse.
The customer said yes please this afternoon to the frame, so that's good news. Once it's done I'll try and get a picture of it, not that you'll be able to get much perspective - on it's end against my 5ft9" frame though you will......!
Spit wrote:Can you get & cut mountboard in that size? Jumbo boards are around 5 foot, are they not?
John Purcell Paper(http://www.johnpurcell.net/) sell 2200micron Heritage Museum White mountboard(same stuff Arqadia sell) in sheets 162x218cm. The downside is that its about £75 a sheet. I've cut a couple of window mounts from this stuff - total PITA to dismantle the Keencut and use the cutter and straightedge free of the frame. Also when you fit up you need a serious subframe to keep these babies from gaping away from the glass. (Next time i do one i'll take some photos and show the beast off)
This frame is nearly finished now and I'm at the perspex sourcing stage.
I was going to go with 3mm thick clear perspex in a bid to eliminate the bowing, but I also have an option on 2mm thick.
Has anyone any thoughts on this - I'm also going to put the frame together backwards, (ie. hover the frame over the backing, barrier, mountboard, papyrus sandwich) so maybe the thickness isn't an issue if I chose 2mm think perspex.
...I went for 3mm perspex in the end and it was fine, I've still got the frame at the house though as I'm still working on it. With the addition of the 3mm MDF backing (that was fun getting that home), the frame tips the scales at around 20 to 25kg I'd say.
I appreciate the advice re. hanging the frame but I still have concerns over what to use as hangers.
Framejunkie - going the x4 strap hanger route sounds good, these would have to hook onto the Heavy Duty Wall Hooks...
Or the other option is 1 bridge plate in each corner with the brass bezel screwed to the wall.
Or there's the french battens described in the original post which would work in my opinion as the moulding is 70mm deep x 25mm deep.
So, to put yourselves in my shoes, if you had a frame that weighed 25kg and was 86.5" x 47.5" - what would you be confident in hanging it to the wall with please?
There are some neat wall fittings which are very good when using the batten method. They are called 'hammer fixings'. They work well if you are fixing into solid brick/breize block. Basically, it's a rawlplug with a long screw preloaded.
Measure carefully where you want the batten to sit on the wall. Drill a hole in the centre of the batten, same size as the masonary bit recomended for the fixings, then hold it up to the wall in the right place and drill though the hole into the wall to the correct depth. Then you can bang the fixing in. Heres the clever bit.... You can level the batten with just the one fixing in and drill additional holes by going though batten and wall together. This way there is no messing about trying to drill seperate holes in the wall to align with predrilled holes in the batten, which can be a major PITA. The hammer fixings are amazingly strong. No way are they ever going to pull out of sound brickwork. They can be removed by unscrewing them.
The main drawback with all these bezel/keyhole/strap hanger thingies is that they require precision when drilling the walls. If anyone has actually done this they will know that drilling accurate holes in brick is tricky. There is no room for error. You can't drill another hole 5mm up from the one you have already drilled. Some strap hangers have slotted holes so some fine tuning for level is possible, but only in one direction. Even then, it's a take it down - check it - alter it - put it back up - still not quite right - oh sod it procedure. You might get it right the first go if you are lucky. Bet your socks the next one won't be as easy.
The batten method will support vitually any weight of frame safely and securely. Even on plasterboard cavity walls if you use enough of the right fittings (Metal expanding bolts, not the plastic ones). The weight is spread along the length of the batten and the forces are applied close to the wall, minimising the leverage effect. Also the batten on the frame will strengthen it, as it attaches at multple points along the top and side rails. Two bits of PAR and some screws. Simple.
If you are concerned about the weight, you might consider anchoring the wire/cord to the bottom rail, and allowing the wire to run freely through the hanging hardware on the adjacent two sides. Mirror/strap hangers are probably the best.
This way the bottom is supported and is less likely to bow due to the weight of the frame.
Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent! – Porky Pine
I`ve got a customer who is having a watercolour painted which will be "at least A0 size" and then with wide mounts and wide moulding may be 55"x67". I appreciated the contributions people have made about split battens. I could try butt end joining mounts with 45 bevels but I`m stuck on glazing.Could 2 or 3 or 4mm glass be used? Is it necessary to use perspex instead? Who supplies these materials in these sizes?Also how often do framers come face to face with these big`uns? Weekly? Monthly? Annually?
I framed a huge w/c last year. 45x27. Fortunately the paper was mounted onto canvas and stretcher bars. (Before it was painted). This allowed me to use a liner (suitably lined) instead of a window mount, which simplified things no end. Not the least was reducing the glass size to 48" wide. Expecting a sheet of watercolour paper of that scale to behave itself in a frame is really unrealistic. A bit of forethought on the part of the artist makes life a lot simpler all round. Still, artists will insist on working on the grand scale, expecting the framer to work magic and complain bitterly when faced with a £500+ quote for framing.
