manufactureing and selling to shops

[greenfields]

does anyone know anything about selling made up frames to shops manufactured frames 8bye 10 6by4 etc is there any advice on the selling part of this bussiness and the costs of the price to charge for large amounts of frames with mts or without mts

[prospero]

First reaction: Forget It. No way can you compete with foreign imports.

[Not your average framer]

How many reasons would you like not to do it!

The shops will take a long time getting around to paying you.

They would not have any loyalty, but will switch suppliers any time it suits them. Perhaps they haven't paid for the last lot and are on stop with the previous supplier, or they can get them a penny cheaper from somewhere else, etc, etc.

There are probably too many suppliers in the market already.

There's always someone who can make them cheaper than you.

What do you reckon are the chances of some of your customers going down during the recession without paying you.

Too much risk, too much investment, too much agro and for too little profit.

May I suggest, that if you want too start something worth while, try something which targets the more affluent and better quality end of the market.

[Jonny2morsos]

Unless you have invested in a factory capable of knocking out frames by the 1000 don't even consider it.

You will never compete with the mass producers.

Opposite my shop I have a place calling itself "The Warehouse Clearance Superstore". They sell cheap rubbish including ready made frames to which they dedicate more space than my entire sales area. You can also but 4 tins of Pepsi for £1 but cannot read the writing on the tin because it was never destined for the UK market and a variety of Nescafe that has such a high caffeine content it should come with one of those leaflets you find with prescription drugs telling you about possible side effects.

So how come we still do business? Because we cater for the opposite end of the market. After all who wants to put a Ltd. Ed. print in a £10 frame that is not right in its proportions does not have a mount etc.,
etc.

We can offer hundreds of moulding and mount choices without holding stock other than our chevrons (backed up by visualisation software) and our customers will wait for us to order materials to complete the job because they don't expect to take it home today.

We do, however, compromise on occasions when the customer coughs at our price. What we do is tell them what size ready made they need to buy, send them across the road while we keep hold of their item and cut a mount. They return and pay us more for a mount than they paid for the frame.

Suits us!

John.

[ross]

I would review your current workload for whatever quality market you are targeting - are you covering costs and making a profit. Hopefully the answer is yes, so how many frame units do you manufacture each week - use this number to determine the profit you make per unit

Now how many small cheap frame units can you make week by week - if you make these are you sacrificing time and energy from your profitable custom framing - if yes, why do you want to target the el-cheapos and reduce the potential of what is already profitable?

In summary, leave the rubbish to those that manufacture in large quantities and use your time to promote and market your services to the market you seek to provide a quality service to - just imagine if you could get another few dozen profitable customers though a marketing campaign in your community - it really will pay for itself, and hey, you might just be able to have some time to yourself and maybe some quality family time - all because you are not slaving away at making heeps of junk

Ross

[prospero]

One factor that should not be ignored in making lots of frames all the same....

It's Bloody Well Boring!

I once used to do batches of 25 readymades for one particular customer. Even with that amount you tend to loose the will to live past the tenth.... Imagine doing 200? 300? 500? 2000 corners to touch up.

I'm going for a le down now. I don't feel very well.

[kev@frames]

been watching this one for a couple of days so here's my bit for what its worth;
we used to do RMFs for shops - we used to have 7 staff and worked double shifts to keep up.
We dont do them now.

Big turnover, small profit, lots of wear and tear, big bills for wages, lots of responsibilities to staff, management skills taxed to the max, delivery issues...
we make more money now on a quarter of the turnover, doing "retail" and 90 percent less hassle.
So I think that says quite a bit.

If i were to do it again i'd be on alibaba or one of the other eastern wholesale sites buying in vietnamese frames like the wholesalers to the pound-shops do, and drop shipping them. One man job

But then again thats what everyone is doing, and thats why the market is flooded with RMFs. See the garden centres post and others.

Then when you do make RMFs for shops, some muppet will simply copy you, undercut you, and its all out the window. so you are then being a rep as well, trying to bring in work, chasing orders etc.

Likewise if you are internet based - some people (particularly newcomers) think its acceptable to copy your products, prices etc, or just base their business on undercutting. These people dont stay the course, but they are a pain in the a*se, they fade away because they haven't even worked out their prices or business plan, they just base their prices on yours when they haven't got a clue about your business model, margins, or what you have up your sleeve or in the pipeline. They see you doing OK and want a slice.
Its a rat race.

leave it to the rats imho

unless you have got a dynamite product with a unique selling point, then you might get a few months out of it till the opposition starts copying. Or unless you have opened up a new market - eg. sub-post-offices, which are an ideal outlet for photo frames and mounts on sale or return and which nobody seems to have tackled yet.


But most of all ^^^^^^^ what he says, its bloody boring

[greenfields]

weli se there is alot af people with bad views on this type of work .

the problem that i have is i opened a new picture framing workshop and art gallery in a town of 4000 people and i have very little to do i am getting bored so i was thinking of getting some plastic mouldings and as i have seen i need to do something diferent than these rmf from asia like double mts or washlines i have spent a lot of money on my new bussiness i know it will work but i need to pay the mortage at the end of the month so i need to get work fast to try to balance the books

[Keith Hewitt]

Hello Greenfields,
The advice above is spot on - you simply cant compete with Chinese and Indonesians with big factories working 2 or 3 shifts a day with automatic cutting and joining machines.

But what can you do?
Have you considered producing framed prints of the touristic scenes of Donegal? No need to be big say max 10 x 8 ins, but mostly 8 x 6 ins. Is anyone doing it at present? If not go for it, but if they are go and research the market properly.

Ask shops that sell them ...
What could you do better?
What images are needed?
Buying and selling prices.
How to display - very important!

IMHO both tourists and general public will buy nicely made matted and framed prints of local scenes either as a souvenir or as a present. But go for quality - wooden frame - maybe double mat - make it look swish. There is always a market for quality!

Go check it out, and be sure to put your sticker on the back of each one!
Let me know if this helps you.

[prospero]

Sorry to cast gloom, but making and selling readymades is probably your worst option if you want to give your cashflow a quick boost. Even if you could develop your own unique range of frames, it would take time to get just the right product and then you are faced with trying to sell to big outlets. Doing this 'cold' is next to immpossible. You need to have good contacts to even get your foot in the door.

A little story.....

A rep I knew years ago told me of a gallery owner( posh place apparently) who used to buy the cheapest moulding he could get, and chop it all up into frames about 12x16 or whatever. No glass, no touch-ups, just basic rims. He would then pile them all in a box and wrote, "Seconds. £1" on it. (This was 20+years ago so the moulding was probably about 5p a foot). Doesn't sound very exiting, but according to the rep, these frames used to pay for the guy's holiday every year. This is just an example, but think about it. Making basic frames takes not too much time. If they cost you £1 in moulding (cheaper in plastic) and you can knock them out for £2.50 that's not a bad return. People love a bargain, they are more tham likely to buy an armful at once if they think they are unrepeatable bargains. They key word is "Seconds". They weren't actually seconds of course, they were brand new and undamged, so when people rumage though the box and find them all good, they think they are getting an even better buy. Of course they may just buy them and you never see them again. OK, you stillhave agood profit. But there will be some who will return later with a load of photos that they want fitting in the 'bargain' frames. Then you can charge them accordingly......

I sometimes leave a stack of knackered/wrong size/general left-over frames in the shop and it's suprising how they attract attention. You can almost hear them thinking, "I wonder if that will fit........".

Can't help thinking that a strategy such as this would be more lucrative in the short term (and the long term come to that).

Just a thought.........

[Not your average framer]

i need to pay the mortage at the end of the month so i need to get work fast to try to balance the books

O.K., now we know where you're coming from!

So you've got a new picture framing workshop and art gallery in a town of 4000 people and things are slow getting started.

Well first of all, a reality check slow getting started is fairly normal, so don't be too down hearted. As you may have already worked out picture framing is doing better than art in this current business climate. The trouble is a lot of those 4000 people need a little help with knowing what you can do for them. The ones who have noticed that you are there, have probably registered that you are an art gallery, but do they know about the framing?

Christmas is coming and people know that framing takes time, therefore right now is the right time to be getting things framed for Christmas. So if you haven't already done some, you need some temping demo pieces for the shop window. May I suggest a football or rugby shirt, some baby's booties, bride & groom sugarcraft for a wedding cake and anything else that comes to mind, especially a cross stitch (if you can get one), plus some more normal stuff too.

Frame them and display them with some pricing info to show what you can do for how much. A lot of the necessary bits can come from charity shops or ebay and the sugar craft from a good cake shop. Make them as stunning as possible and put as much stuff as you can on display which shows passers by that you are a picture framer. Make a few ready made frames out of left overs for the window too and price them to sell.

BTW, have you checked out you entitlement to the working tax credit? If not then it's time you did! If you are entitled to the working tax credit, then this is one of the qualifying benefits which allows you to apply for housing benefit and council tax benefit. More self employed people claim these than you might think. For many it's a question of survival!

Make as much as you can of your shop window / windows.

And finally may I wish you every success!

[avantime]

Make a couple of mirrors - lots of people don't think that framers make mirrors too! Good luck!

[Roboframer]

Make a couple of mirrors - lots of people don't think that framers make mirrors too! Good luck!

On reflection, I agree!

[prospero]

On reflection, I agree!

So does Fanny Green.