canvas to frame!??!!

[jacjag]

hi
just got a commission from an artist to frame a canvas. I am so excited because i feel my business has been launched. she does not want a box frame but she does want the sides of the canvas to be hidden (3.5cm) and some sort of front edge! i was wondering what all you people thought about this idea http://www.lionpic.co.uk/product/50-x-3 ... 13778.aspx.
This needs to be relatively easy and cheap. What would your very good advice be.
Many thanks once again
jac

[Not your average framer]

Hi Jacjag,

It's not always easy to say how a particular moulding will go with a particular painting, so if you don't have a sample, then speak nicely to Lion and ash them to send one.

Now to more practical matters. How are you intending to cut and join this moulding without the mitres opening at the front face? Thickness of the sides of the "L" are relatively thin and ash is a fairly hard wood, so you are going to be relying on a strap clamp and a strong glue to hold it together with you can not get the underpinner to do it for you. Cascamite (also known as Extramite or Polymite) is the strongest wood glue I know and will work well with ash.

It is worth metioning that stacking wedges in a narrow and deep ash moulding is at best difficult and at worst asking for trouble.

Don't forget to match the depth of the stretched canvas with the depth of the canvas tray. Trays which don't have the right depth for the canvas don't look right.

Are you going to stain the ash black? This tends to add to the impression of depth in the gap between the canvas and the frame. I'm not saying that this is automatically right for everything, but it is a very common approach which can work well if it suits the subject being framed.

[jacjag]

sounds a bit of a nightmare! any other ideas? cos not liking the sound of this.

[Roboframer]

In 15 years I have done just the one floater frame - I hate them - and these days, if that's what they really really want they can go somewhere else.

Just like they can pick and choose between framers, so can I pick and choose between the sort of jobs I draw a line at. But that doesn't help you at all does it!

The cheapest floater frame possible is one made from flat battens and screwed in to the sides of the stretcher bars. They can be as deep as you like - you just fix it so it's flush at the front, or set back a bit, whatever you want - it won't look any worse than that floater frame.

You could countersink the screws and fill over them - nothing wrong with that - many framers still use vices and nails as default and do that all the time - everyone did before the dawn of the underpinner.

[prospero]

As it happens......... I'm just doing a similar job. The 'canvas' is one of those bedsheet paintings, from New Guinea in point of fact. The edges of the image are uneven and it's a funny size. I stretched it on oversize bars so that there is unpainted parts along the edge, the idea being to fine tune the frame size to cover the blank parts and show as much of the painted area as possible. I made a slip using a 30mm wide plain wood with a beveled edge. (Rose&Hollis). Then I found some flat timber (in the shed) about 30mm x 9mm. I mitred this on edge to the same size as the slip. Then glued the slip to the flat moulding. The slip will be painted white. This assembly will take the depth of the canvas + backing and the canvas will be loose enough to allow me to align with the sight edge so no bare parts show. It will be held in place with strategically placed pads of foamcore. Once all that is done, making an outer frame is a breeze as you have a definate measurement to work from.

Sounds complicated, but it's a handy method in cases like this. Of course the outer frame needs to be deep enough to swallow the depth of the inner part, or wide enough so you don't see it sticking out the back.

In this case the upside-down floater frame is not a bad idea on the face of it, bearing in mind the joining difficulties. Glue/clamp/drill/crossnails is the best way. If there is enough room, glueing a triangular piece in each inside corner will add strengh.

[Jonny2morsos]

Take a look at the "L" mouldings on this page
http://www.wessexpictures.com/iqs/rp.2/ ... dings.html
of the Wessex Pictures website.

They are obeche so not the problems of joining like you will have with ash and there is a bit more meat to get your underpinner wedges into. Other colours and plain unfinished are available also I think you will find similar in the Arqadia range.

John.

[jacjag]

RITE!!!!!!!!! Am planning to screw the damn thing into a extra deep rebated moulding! Roboframer I am totally with you on this one but I cant pass up this opportunity! Am away to lie down in a darkened room!

[Nigel Nobody]

In 15 years I have done just the one floater frame - I hate them - and these days, if that's what they really really want they can go somewhere else.

John,
What exactly is it you hate about floater frames. I have only ever done a few of them, but Haven't found them any more difficult than other mouldings. As a matter of fact they are easier to join than a lot of other shapes.


PS. They are available in black down here and there are also black versions with silver or gold top edges. Most of them available here don't have the step in them.

[Roboframer]

It's not the construction of them, it's the look of them - I think they're naff.

[framejunkie]

Where i come from 'floater' means something else

The problem i have with floaters(apart from the toilet reference) is that pretty much all the readymade moulding i have seen is naff in the extreme. I've done quite a few having made my own moulding from high quality timber and managed to make them look quite classy - a fat floater sometimes doesn't stink at all

[Nigel Nobody]

It's not the construction of them, it's the look of them - I think they're naff.

Mmmm.......BUT......it's a lot better than bare canvas on a stretcher, especially since it enables us to sell some sort of frame!

I hate the look of a canvas just stretched and no frame, but I do stretching and try to encourage customers to put a frame on it too. If they still don't want a frame or a floater, I'm still willing to do something I think looks 'naff'!

[Roboframer]

Oh I'm willing to do anything regards presentation, (some smallprint may apply) but as far as floater frames are concerned the customer will have to describe it to me, or bring in an exanple.

9.999/10 of customers doing that will be talked in to something else - from a boxed canvas (gallery wrap) to a 'proper' job, the remainder will walk and the only problem I will have is the time it took me to make them walk.

I don't like gallery wraps either but they are a piece of p-p-p-p-p-proverbial. Floaters are not difficult but it's a case of hating them as opposed to 'not liking' gallery wraps. Maybe it's a case of hoping the gallery wrap has the option of having a frame added sometime hence, or maybe I'm just a bigot - I can live with that!

I just don't like 'em - simple. Then again one time I hated wire [Shrugging smiley/]

[prospero]

I agree on Gallery Wraps. They are OK for abstract works where a frame is not part of the concept. Just a slab of spodge on the wall. Why use a canvas designed to have the edges showing and then add a frame?
Trouble is, people will use them for figurative work, which is OK until they want a deep scoop frame + liner. Then they wonder why the frame stands off the wall 2". Particualy bad on smaller works. I often have to restretch them on std bars. More probs then as a lot of wraps are metric.

[kev@frames]

we get loads of floters in this neck of the woods - i'd guess a quarter to a third of all the canvases we get over the counter are asked to be floated. Usually with everything painted white, as has been the local "gallery" style for at least ten years.
Half the time we will screw straght through the back of some painted mdf into the stretcher bars, the MDF already cut to whatever size needed, the back of the mdf is best sealed with pva, and then just frame that, or, and this might just be arguably the best tip you will get, use velcro.
This velcro gag is a huge fave among some of our artist customers as they can very quickly and easily swap paintings about in frames for exhibitions etc, as do some galleries who screw the frames to the wall and change the exhibits.
of course this only works best for galleries exhibiting regular same-sized works from regular artists, but if you hate doing floaters, you can suggest the velcro option, and if your artist goes for it you wont be making so many for them