Account keeping question for the Guru's of framing

[LeFrisp]

Peeps
As a newbie setting up as a sole trader in the near future Im keen to get the Book keeping right. As this is start from the beginning thinking I have to ask the question what accountancy / bookkeeping software / systems are other sole traders using. And how easy are they to use.

[prospero]

I believe in keeping things simple. I have an invoice book and an accounts book. I make an invoice out for every job.
I enter all expenditure on the right hand page of the acc book. At the end of the month I total all the invoices up and enter on the left hand page and the add both pages up. Then I can see how much I've lost.

[Merlin]

Since we started in 1999 we have used Quicken .. then onto Quicken XG 2004.
Unfortunately Intuit decided not to support Quicken in the UK anymore.

Have just migrated to Quicken Home & Business 2009. Very simple system that also does invoicing.
My accountant is quite happy with the paperwork it produces. He does the rest.

2009 H & B will not do UK Tax/VAT.

[Not your average framer]

I use Microsoft Excel and lay everything out into the columns which my accountant has asked for. All my bank account transactions are dated directly from the bank statement and this means that my banking total should match the totals on the bottom of my bank statement. If they don't I know I need to check it all again to find and correct the error.

Everything is done by double entry book keeping and this means I can build in check sums so that I don't miss any errors. My spreadsheet template includes automatic addition of column totals and makes life so much easier.

I really don't like accounts at all and I'm very glad to be able do it this way and to know that my accountant will do the rest.

[Bill Henry]

I’m certainly not an expert, but I rather enjoy the bookkeeping aspect of this business. Many people think I’m a little weird for that.

The simplest form of bookkeeping is the single entry system. In it you manually enter your income on one side of a ledger and your expenses on another. Most good sized stationary stores or office supply depot will have such ledgers. In the ledger book there will be a brief explanation of how to set up your accounts. You just have to keep recording the information on a regular basis so you don’t get confused.

For several years before I bought a computerized bookkeeping system, I used a single entry journal. At year end, my accountant was able to make sense of it (as long as my handwriting was legible) so that he could prepare tax forms and financial reports for me.

The more common and much better system is a double entry system which is what every accountant in the world uses. They are many times more useful especially if you need to determine the “health” of your company.

A program like Quicken is probably the simplest and most popular double entry system (at least, over here), but it is set up so that all of the magic is done behind the scenes. You really don’t need to concern yourself with “balancing” the books. The program will place the entries in the correct places for you once you get your “accounts” set up.

I would suggest that you do a Google search for “accounting software” or check on-line for reviews (many e-magazines like PC World or MacAddict, etc. have had them), and choose one that is right for you.

There are some very powerful (and confusing) accounting systems out there – many of them (like MYOB) are designed for hugh corporations with hundreds of employees. Look for one specifically for small businesses and simple needs.

Another suggestion: Your local library may have a very simple “Accounting for Dummies” kind of book. You may not need to know all the fine details, but it will give you an idea what is supposed to happen in a good bookkeeping system.

[Vix]

Hi

I use a program called Solar accounts, which is a very simple accounting program, which is accepted by the inland revenue. You can download a trial version at http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk. I have found it far simpler to use than Quicken (quick books) or Sage and you get online help if you get stuck with anything.

[Jonny2morsos]

Have a look for a book keeping service. They are not accountants so don't charge stupid fees.

Mine charges £15 per hour and providing I give her the information in the correct format she rarely charges me more than 2 hours a month except the end of year when she does the self assessment paperwork and end of year stuff.

Best value I get from any supplier/service provider and she collects/delivers so I don't even have to get of my bum.

John.

[kev@frames]

we use a book-keeping service, they also take care of the VAT returns and Paroll, year end returns. I have not the faintest idea what the hourly rate is, we simply use excel for the shop takIngs and email it in weekly, paypal pro history downloads for online sales which she can get for herself with a password straight into excel. I dont know what book-keeping package she uses but i guess its sage.

once a month she comes over or we fedex her the months invoices/receipts/till rolls/cheque book stubs etc.

I figure its about 100 hours a year which costs me about £1500 so £15 an hour is a snip, considering it would take me 200 hours, I'd get it wrong, forget it, or worse - and even the most laid back framer can can make a lot of money's worth of frames in 200 hours

One thing we dont get with a book-keeping service is much in the way of the sort of advice you used to get included in the service from an accountant - forward planning, financial advice etc.

[gesso]

I believe in keeping things simple. I have an invoice book and an accounts book. I make an invoice out for every job.
I enter all expenditure on the right hand page of the acc book. At the end of the month I total all the invoices up and enter on the left hand page and the add both pages up. Then I can see how much I've lost.

As a beginner (presuming alot here,) not producing thousands of frames a month I would agree with Prosero keep it simple and be methodical. pick a time every week/month to do your books, then there will be no need to use a software package but if you do go all teccie on us ludites BACK EVERYTHING UP ONTO DISC OR EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE

[iantheframer]

I’m certainly not an expert, but I rather enjoy the bookkeeping aspect of this business. Many people think I’m a little weird for that.

Add me to that list of people

I agree with the keep it simple approach and do not use a computerised system

I heard that all VAT submissions will have to be done online soon, which worries me, has anybody else heard about this?

[prospero]

Not heard anything about online VAT. What if you haven't got a 'puter? Not everyone has.

I know one company (some members will know to who I elude. ) who never used a computer (or mobile phones) because of their religious convictions. What happens then?

The IR came unstuck the first time they accepted online tax returns when 1000s of folks summited them at the last knockings.

[gesso]

So that's why..mmm....just put it down to them being Bolshy...but good guys to deal with none the less.