Beware This Company

[Perfection]

Just thought I'd let the forum know about my experience with Preservation Equipment Limited - so-called supplier of Melinex (or similar) conservation films. Following feedback from the forum, having taken in tickets & a programme from the Michael Jackson "This Is It" concert for faming, we opted to use the film to mount the items. I ordered a roll of film from Preservation Equipment Limited on Thursday 29th April - mid morning. I actually called them first to ask which of the various films I should use - they did not have anyone to give advice "sorry, we don't give advice, we have no-one qualified" (that's a verbatim quote). They charge £10.00 carriage for a package approx 30cm x 10cm. Cost to ship such an item is approximately £1.45 first class. But that's their minimum charge - no exceptions. The best is yet to come.

When nothing had arrived by yesterday - 8 days later, I called to see what's ado. Another varbatim response - "Well, it says on our website that things can take up to 28 days". Naturally, trying to keep calm, I asked the lady to investigate when I might see something for my bucks. (Have to be totally fair here, they haven't taken the payment yet). After keeping me on hold for a while, the lady came back to say that they'd been stock-taking and nothing could leave the warehouse but my order had been prioritised for Tuesday next week.

F***ck me fellas, was I born in a different time-space contiuum or something?

Paul

[Roboframer]

First impressions count; sorry to hear yours was a bad one, mine wasn't - it may not have been anything to write home about but it was fine and has been since.

I think we in the framing trade are a bit spoilt - our suppliers can deliver chop service overnight, but many companies outside of our trade - and I know as we deal with all sorts - can't even get stuff off their shelves on to ours in a month!

When we order from PEL - or other 'bits and pieces' companies we make sure the order is worth the carriage charges and we also make sure we're in no rush for anything.

Maybe the PO would have charged £1.45 first class, but they wouldn't have packaged it for you and nor would they have had to pay for the time and fuel any employee would use to get it to the PO.

Stuff that PEL sells is hard to find - take a look at conservation by design - http://www.conservation-by-design.co.uk/

I've not looked too hard at them but a quick search finds Melinex easily - and they call it 'Melinex' too. Apparently you can get their stuff via Arqadia - again, I haven't looked in to it that much - no idea what they are like to deal with direct.

It's a shame that we don't have a framing supplier that can provide stuff like Melinex and the real McCoy Japanese hingeing papers etc - it's a reflection on the demand for it I suppose, so we just have to make the best of suppliers we do have, but your experience is not PEL at their best and I don't think the warning 'beware' is warranted.

[Keith Hewitt]

Perfection,

Sorry to read your bad experience. I had the impression they are a slick operation.
I always say a biz is only as good as its weakest link .
You seem to have found the weak link

I love to read the "bull s**t " companies write about themselves on their website...

Today Preservation Equipment Ltd has a trusted reputation that is recognised by major institutions worldwide. The Company is built on providing quality products at the best prices with large stock levels (the highest in Europe) to enable prompt delivery, good service and earn its reputation as the market leader.

[robbiez]

Arqadia = Conservation By Design.

Arqadia brought out Conservation By Design a year or so ago. You will note their addresses are a stone's throw from each other

[framemaker]

I have only used PEL 5 or 6 times but they have always been quick to deliver. But it is a shame when you hear someones bad experience with a company.

One of my first orders I bought a pack of 100 pieces of 10" x 15" buffered tissue paper which was to be used in a book which had exactly 50 coloured plates, so they would be used to prevent the colours migrating into the pages either side. I put all the sheets in the book and find I am 12 short, so I go through three times to check I have not doubled any up, which could easily happen as the stuff was super thin. But no the pack was short, speak to PEL who don't sound to convinced of my story, but to be fair they send me 20 sheets FOC.

I can totally understand why they have a policy to not give advice, I think they are probably used to dealing with museums and conservators, they are the people who know about and advise on the correct use of a product or technique.

[kev@frames]

perhaps this should have been in Members Only.
Its quite a scathing post .
So I'll do the devil's advocate thing:

8 days - but didn't we have a bank holiday weekend in there somewhere?
allow up to 28 days they say. Prompt delivery, in context, means within the promised time = within 28 days.

so-called suppliers of melinex? What does that mean, exactly.

They dont give advice because it is a spoecialist product, you, in this case being the specialist who is using the product, and they expect you to know what you want. Obviously you want melinex, and know why you want it.

£10 delivery versus £1.50 first class stamp . What about the time involved in picking your order, packing it, and actually getting it into the post, the time involved in processing the order, materials involved etc. The cost of a stamp isn't what you are paying for. You are paying for them to deliver the goods to you -if they choose to send them by post that is their choice. What would it have cost you in time and money to go to their place and collect them?

If you dont agree with the delivery charges, then dont buy from them. Can't get melinex anywhere else? Then whatever you end up paying is de-facto the going rate for having some melinex delivered, as is the delivery time.

If PEL were a member of this forum, would the original post have been made in its current form? Would you be happy for them to see the original post, and would you like them to respond? Do you think they have a right to put their side of the story.

Consider a few weeks down the line when whoever does PEL's web site or marketing reviews the latest internet mentions of the company name, and this thread pops up. Their reaction will be.... (?)

As Robo says, in the framing trade we are spoiled with fast reliable deliveries and overwhelmingly the majority of suppliers of our bread-and-butter materials (Glass, Board, Mouldings, tapes etc) continually and consistently manage to deliver an on-demand supply of a huge range of goods. It's impressive, and we take it as normal. People outside of the framing trade would be envious of the general level of service and support we small shops get from distributors and suppliers.

In many industries the service you have had from PEL would be the norm, just normal business.

With a business head on, what is the issue with an occasional £10 delivery charge for some materials that you are using on an ad-hoc basis. Obviously if you use a lot of melinex you will keep a lot in stock, and the delivery charge pales into insignifigance. You are paying for the convenience of PEL keeping it in stock, or getting it for you, and delivering it to you at random intervals, in very small quantities, when you order it.

it would be good customer service to advise you of any unusual delays, of course. But I dont think it's really appropriate to issue "Beware" warnings on a public forum based on one transaction with a company, particularly when they may be unaware of the forum post and denied the opportunity to respond.

[YPF]

Kev@frames - that was a well reasoned and calm response to what might be considered an emotional original post and I tend to agree with you. Is there opportunity to move this to members only?

Steve

[Gesso&Bole]

It can often be frustrating when suppliers do not live up to expectations.

I am certainly not an easy customer to deal with, or a push-over, as I have extremely high expectations, and strive to maintain them.

Where a supplier has upset me, I will make it VERY plain to them why, and give them the opportunity to put it right. If they put it right I respect them and continue to recommend them and use them as if nothing had happened. If they don't, I will tell them why I am not dealing with them again, and I will move my business elsewhere. BUT I WILL NOT RUBBISH THEM IN PUBLIC.

This is a philosophy I defend on the following basis;

'Don't trample on people as you climb the ladder of success, as you will quite possibly meet them again on the way down"

Anything committed to words on a forum like this IS VERY PUBLIC

[Perfection]

I am more than happy for the company concerned to see the post as they will by tomorrow receive my very calmly worded letter of complaint. I take exception to some of the comments in this post but do not wish to expand on that here.

If those of you who believe that 8 days (which will become 2 weeks by the time it's actually delivered) is good service for delivery of an in-stock product which requires nothing other than taking off a shelf & posting, then Lord help your customers.

Other points I can live with, for example it is within the 28 days stated on their website and I could have taken my business elsewhere but chose not to.

Finally, I expect the staff costs of running a business to be accounted for in the price I pay for the products, not to be charged again for them to be taken off a shelf and put in the post so those arguments simply do not hold water.

Fact is, this company has fallen way below my expectations, regardless of whether or not I'm a spoilt framer, which I assure you I'm not. I shall vote with my feet.

By the way, I am equally ready to offer praise when service excellence is displayed, as I have done on this forum on several occasions.

[kev@frames]

Kev@frames - that was a well reasoned and calm response ........

Steve

first time i have ever been accused of that one The pills must be working.

As for ideas holding water: as someone who sends thousands of shipments a year by fedex and the postal system, I occasionally receive communications from customers who think that on small orders the carriage cost of minimum £3.95 plus VAT is too much. This is very occasional, as well.
our carriage is £10 on a £50 order, free over £150, and as a gesture we drop the carriage on very tiny orders under a fiver to 3.95.
we calculate these rates based on average consignments, packing and time, plus the fedex contract cost, plus all the other costs associated with offering a delivery service ON TOP, not included in the product. I imagine the company in the original post have similarly averaged out what it costs to ship their average order and arrived at £10 fixed rate. That is what the majority of businesses who ship enough goods usually do.
It has the benefit of a clear and straightforward delivery price for the customer who does not want to travel and collect their order.

If a shipping cost was included in the product price, larger orders would pay a hugely disproportionate amount per item (sheet of melinex, for example) and they would be subsidising the small-order occasional buyer. A great way of penalising one's big spending customers.

Its not eBay.

[Roboframer]

I love to read the "bull s**t " companies write about themselves on their website...

Today Preservation Equipment Ltd has a trusted reputation that is recognised by major institutions worldwide. The Company is built on providing quality products at the best prices with large stock levels (the highest in Europe) to enable prompt delivery, good service and earn its reputation as the market leader.

How do you know that's BS - from experience over time or just from what you've read from someone else's first experience?

I could back the 'best prices' bit up compared to a well known framing supplier - complete with links - but I won't; not publicly anyway. The difference would negate the £10 carriage on some items - not the one in question though as no framing suppliers sell it and if they did they'd probably get it from a company like PEL, at least to start/until they could commit to higher volume anyway.

But if they DID sell it, then the price, like other stuff, would probably negate PEL's carriage.

If I went through my business life judging suppliers on my initial orders with them and making it company policy not to deal with any that gave me at least SOME sort of headache - I don't think I'd have any suppliers - I'd have to pack it all in!

Reckon a few of my own customers could say the same about me - defying the laws of average otherwise.

[Nigel Nobody]

Paul,
If you knew that the website said that delivery could be 28 days, I think you should have passed this company by in the first place! If you didn't know that, then you probably should have asked how long delivery would be when you made your initial enquiry by phone.

Delivery time, delivery cost and cost of the goods should be mandatory issues to discuss with a "new" supplier when ordering products for the first time.

[Tudor Rose]

Hello Everyone

Sorry to butt in on this, but having read one of Robo's excellent posts a while back I too put in an order to PEL for Melinex amongst other bits and pieces that I found on their website.

Yes, I did read that the delivery could be up to 28 days which surprised me at the time because as has been pointed out we get used to almost next day delivery on in stock items in this trade; but as I was in no great rush it made no real odds. As it happened we received our items within about 8-10 days and the payment was only collected at around the same time from our credit card details.

Everything was packed very well and all arrived in good order and exactly as described on their website.

As a first time user of PEL I would highly recommend them and I'm sorry that Perfection feels differently. However, maybe this is the time to give them a second chance and if it goes badly again then THAT is the time to walk away. Personally, and having seen the kind of clients they are used to dealing with who must order masses more than we ever could, I thought they dealt with me very well. No company (no matter how big or small) can get it right every time, we are all human after all.

So thank you Roboframer for the "heads up" on this supplier, it was a great help with a job that needed doing.

Tudor Rose

[Not your average framer]

I am sorry to say this, but it is too easy for someone who has only just joined the forum and maybe lacks experience of how things are, to rubbish suppliers which many of us depend upon for important things we cannot easily get elsewhere.

I would like to point out that we are in a recession and comments like this can damage and even in difficult economic times destroy companies of great importance to many in our industry.

I don't think such potentially harmful comments are warranted in this case and I wonder how the originator of these comments would feel if someone was making similar comments about his business within his own local community.

Such comments are almost impossible to counter and can cause great damage without any redress. This forum has great influence and therefore I trust that most of us are aware our responsibilities when commenting in ways that can or may be harmful to others.

I would be happy if there was agreement of all concerned to see this thread deleted.

[prospero]

I second that.

[Bagpuss]

agreed, I've only used PEL a couple of times but was more than happy with them.

I always save angry e-mails in the draft folder and then take a fresh look in the morning

cheers
Bagpuss

[Not your average framer]

As some may be aware from much earlier postings by myself, I used to be a bookbinder and paper conservator. Why do I mention this? Well there are significant similarities between the type of businesses which supply bookbinding / conservation business and the company being maligned in this thread.

At times when I needed something in a hurry or needed to browse a companies stock to pick exactly the right materials for an important job, I would visit the company in person at their trade counter.

This could be quite an educational experience. Most of these companies by their very nature carry a vast range of different product and cut to length, weigh out, or count the amounts needed for individual customer orders from much larger wholesale rolls or packs.

Being specialist suppliers, they are usually small companies with few staff. It's not like a supermarket where everything is individually packed or tinned ready for the customer to take away. Same day dispatch may be what we think we should be able to expect from some businesses, but in this kind of business it may not be a realistic expectation at all.

Not only that, but as some of these materials are on rolls and vunerable to handling damage or contamination, they may be unpacked and repacked each time they are taken off the shelf and any marked or creased parts cut off and discarded before measuring and cutting the customers needs from a unmarked and perfect part of a roll.

Life isn't always as simple and easy as our modern day conceptions. This company has quoted their delivery turnaround to indicate what a customer should be able to expect. SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

Also having worked most of my life in industry, I know a little about how stock taking works. There are procedures which must be followed as the stock staking is to provide accurate information for annual accounts purposes.

While the stock taking is being conducted the stock cannot and is not available for making up orders. It must be in the stores for measuring, counting or weighing. To remove a item from stock to make up an order and then to return it to stock could lead to false accounting.

I sorry to spell it out, but this is not only a reasonable reason for delay, but it is an essential and unavoidable part of accurate stock keeping and not a fair cause for criticism!