Mountcutting blades

[Not your average framer]

I often wonder if mountcutting blades are not as good as they used to be, because they never seem to last as long as I think they should.

I have a very accurately adjusted Keencut Ultimat with new nylon bearings fitted about three years ago. It is adjusted to have no cutter head play whatsoever, the bearings are adjusted such that I have to regularly use a silicon based nylon lubricant to avoid stiffness when moving the cutting head.

The use of the lubricant, the new bearings (supplied free), and the advice in adjusting the bearings are all thanks to Keencut, for which I am most grateful. I don't have any problems or concerns with my Keencut at all - It's the business!

However, regardless of which make of mountcutting blades I use, I tend to find it best to use a new blade for each new mount, because it's never quite so perfect on the second mount. I have even considered using more than one blade when cutting extra thick mount board.

Is it just me, or do others find this too!

[kev@frames]

sounds like you have a batch of dodgy blades maybe? ???

phone sue at our shop and I'll send you some of ours to check against, save you buying a new box.

and use some cheap standard board as a slip mat, its softer

you ought to get from 20 up to 50 average mounts out of a blade on a keencut on Slater Harrison board and 20 - 30 average on arquadia board.

Thats just my experience with it anyway.

kev

[John]

That's incredible, Not your average framer! What mountboard are you using?

[Not your average framer]

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the offer, but I've got three different makes of blade in two different thicknesses and I also stand and the end of the mountcutter and pull the cutting head towards me with my wrist locked. However, I do sometimes get the odd slight hook on a corner when the blade starts to lose it's edge.

Admittedly, not a really bad obvious hook, but it's a real big thing with me that every mount for is perfect and I will scrap any which are not perfect. I make a big thing about my mountcutting and show customers my mountcutting under magnification - It's a good marketing angle which goes down very well. So it has to be perfect, but I have a lot of very particular customers and charge accordingly.

Before I had the shop and worked from home I mostly used Colourmount 800 series board, I hardly ever charged my blades at all, but these days with much harder boards the blades don't last so well. However, I still keep thinking, I should be able to use the blades for more mounts than I do, but when I compare the cost of a new blade with the cost of the board for a large mount, it's not a big deal. Of course, it's the same blade for a double mount.

However, I keep thinking that I should be able to get more life out of the blades that this!

[Not your average framer]

That's incredible, Not your average framer! What mountboard are you using?

John,

Mainly Bainbridge (mixture of white core & artcare), but also a lot of older stock which includes Tru-Vue, Arqadia, Daler and Colourmount. Arqadia being the most dense and therefore the quickest for blunting blades.

It can't be the mount cutter and I can't see that I'm doing anything wrong, however I do have artharitis in my hands, neck and shoulders, but I don't really think that has anything to do with it.

[John]

I don't have much experience with a huge range of boards, having standardised, about 12 years ago on Daler conservation. Although it appears to be denser I get a much longer life with that than I would get with standard board.

Recently, I seriously considered moving to Artcare, but having heard about how fussy it is about blade sharpness, I have had second thoughts.

A blade on my Valiani lasts about a week, but they are quite expensive (I think around £80 for a box of 100), and there is no way that I could contemplate a new blade for every mount.

Maybe, you could try a bit of Daler conservation to see if you have any better luck with it.

[Not your average framer]

I think I should clarify that I don't automatically get a slightly hooked corner just because I've used a blade more than once, but if it happens, then I wish I'd changed the blade earlier.

On balance, I usually use a new blade per customer and think it saves both time and money in the long run.

[Not your average framer]

Recently, I seriously considered moving to Artcare, but having heard about how fussy it is about blade sharpness, I have had second thoughts.

Come to think about it, I don't have much trouble at all with the others, except Arqadia, but regular blade changes solves that one too!. However, the Artcare range has some very classy colour and finish combinations which are really fantastic on some jobs. Also the zeolite technology make great marketing sense too!

[Keith Hewitt]

This thread is about Keencut machines, and Keencut blades so I am going to send a link to this topic to Richard Clarke. Richard is the guy who demonstrates Keencut at Spring Fair and many international framing shows as well.
He is well placed to add his views and opinions.
It will be interesting to see his reply.

Keith Hewitt

[beth]

I use mainly artcare and some arqadia boards without many problems, the only things that I find causes hooking is the blade depth being too deep or the head of the cutter coming loose but you have that all sorted out.
The only other thing I find when I am using a mixture of mountcards from different manufactures the thickness of the mountcards vary (slightly), you can have your mountcutter perfectly set up for artcare, cut your mount, no over, cuts no hooking, then cut a new mountboard from a different manufacture and you can have over cuts (not massive), though never noticed hooking.

[kev@frames]

Notyouraverageframer - yes the colourmount 800 is very soft to cut. The 300 is soft but is thicker as well and you notice the feel. All the slater harrison boards are soft compared to arquadia.

We always find Keencut extremely helpful, absolutely top notch. We have had three keencut machines to date, although the present one gets very little use since we got the Wizard last year.

I have some hand, thumb, shoulder and neck aches and pains from cutting mounts, and for sure they were made worse by mount cutting with the machine flat. In the end I alleviated the problem by mounting it at a 45 degree angle

Arquadia boards are pretty hard, we notice this because of all the cuts we get in our fingers from offcuts.

Bothe Slaters and Arquadia are nice boards to work with, but on a hand cutting machine you'll certainly notice less fatigue (wear and tear on you and the blades) with slaters.

Although we now use approx 50/50 Slater Harrison and Arquadia, I love working with the Slater Harrison boards, but I do much appreciate Arquadia for dropping the neutral PH boards and "raising the game.

[Not your average framer]

Today I was using up some of my remaining Tru-Vue mountboard to sell in ready made frames. I cut loads of mounts all with one blade and no hooks. I find it hard to believe that Bainbridge is any different to Tru-Vue. I also checked my blade depth and which cuts about a quarter of the way into the scrap board underneath.

The only thing I can think of so far is that it has been quite warm today and I didn't have any of my usual artharitic stiffness. It's very difficult to get to the bottom of what's happening, but if it is my artharitis, why should changing the blade more often solve the problem?

I have discussed this problem with Keencut several times and can only conclude that it is not a problem with the mount cutter, both the blade pivot bearings and the slideway bearings are free of unwanted movement. For a long time I've been putting this down to the quality of the blades, but after replies to this thread I realise this can't be the cause.

Thinking back I've been encountering these problems for maybe a couple of years, which could take me back to about when I had a heart attack. I've been heavily medicated ever since which has greatly worsened my artharitis. Somehow I'm not all that convinced about this possiblity, but I am starting to think about it. It really does help to talk it through and listen to other doesn't it. Thanks to all.
Mark

[Not your average framer]

Today my artharitis was worse and I cut quite a few mounts using various different boards, I avoided changing the blade and ever one was perfect. I therefore conclude, it's not the Keencut, it's not the make of board and not the artharitis.

I'm not sure where this gets me, but one of my part time staff has pointed out that the bench (home made) has got a bit of a sag in the middle. The bench was built after the heart attack so I did not have to keep lifting the mount cutter on and off the main bench, because I could not safely lift anything heavy at that time. The main bench was I used up until then is much more solid. We did at one time have to put a couple of bits of backing board under one corner of the bench because the slideway bar was not fully clamping along it's length and the mountboard was moving while I tried to cut it. I'm gonna check this one out too!

[Roboframer]

You sound like the perfect candidate for a CMC Mark - I know it's a big expense but I think of it this way - it's the perfect new employee (a bit specialised admittedly s/he won't sweep up or anythin!) and the only snag is you have to pay his/her first 6-9 months salary up front. But after that s/he will work for free as long as you provide board and lodge!

Not that I have one!

[Not your average framer]

Yes John,

I can dream. Maybe one day, who knows.

[Keith Hewitt]

I've had a reply from Richard Clarke, which I will copy, edit and paste below.
============================================
Dear Keith,

Just to let you know that I have now finished my educational and working role for Keencut.
I thought that I had done my time and felt like a change. We have I might add parted on friendly terms.

Can't seem to get on your forum thingy. (Richard..it's not MY FORUM THINGY! It belongs to all the framers who read the posts !!)

Until I manage to register, could you pass on that I would be very happy to give personal advice at my 'Framers Clinic' ('Clarke's Clinic') which i will be holding on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, on the Picture Business stand at the Spring Fair.

Kind Regards Richard.
===============================================
John, can I suggest you contact Richard to puzzle out why he was unable to register? He would be a good person to have on TFF
Keith

[Framing Norah]

Keith, the "Forum Thingy" put down, from a man who is quite familiar with the online forum concept, suggests a reluctance to get involved here rather than an actual obstacle.

[Not your average framer]

I think I'm getting this figured out. The bench top is made of 3/4" flooring grade Chipboard which as it happens is not as flat as one might expect. It has many high points and low points which are not obvious at all by eye, but a straight edge shows them up.

I placed some mount blades under each end of the cutter bar and checked the space between the cutter bar and the base plate from one end to the other with a feeler guage. I not only find a variation, but if I pick one of the bad spots I find as the blade starts to lose it's edge, I get slightly hooked corners when cutting at these spots, but not elsewhere. These spots appear to be related to the variations in the bench top. It's not easy to explain, but due to limited space in my back room, my set-up may well be a contributory factor as well.

I'm being sent some 12 thou and 15 thou single sided blades to try and have spotted a couple of other things which need further investigation. I'll post an update when I've got it sorted.

[Merlin]

Hi Mark
In the days when we were using the Keencut Gold, we found that we had to use a 1" thick ply base as we also found that chipboard warped in the then slightly damp conditions.

We supported this underneath with 2" x 2" battens. Maybe an overkill, but at least the mountcutter was on a flat stable surface.

[Roboframer]

Single sided blades are good!

I use persona blades from Lion in an ultimat gold, cheap as chips, but work fine for me!