Cove box design, help please

[Trinity]

The template provided by John (see good, bad and ugly) works a treat. Doing the cuts manually with a scalpel takes a bit of getting used to because if you get the depth of cut too shallow the card (i'm using white display board) tends to crease or pucker when I fold it. So practice on scrap first for a bit.
At the moment I cut the card to the extreme size, use a Fletcher 2100 to set out mark out the 4 main lines and a compass to set out from each corner to establish the slope lines. Then cut with a scalpel. Well worth a play if you've not yet done it.

My projects to date have quite large, to the full extent of the frame and I've used a substantial moulding, to the back of which I've added some wood, painted or paper covered to cloak the depth of the cove box and provide a "good" fixing point for the finished item.

My latest project is different insofar as the moulding is small / fine section. The cove box is 200 wide x 80 high and 50 deep which will be fixed to a mat (at least) 300 x 180. So the cove box and 50 rear projection is well inboard of the frame. My normal extension trick may look a little heavy, and the mouding section makes it difficult to retain the fine lines if there's a piece of wood clagged onto the back.

I could paint / paper over the back side of the cove but I'm then unsure how it'll all then fix to the wall .

Any thoughts on finishing off and fixing this please?

[JohnMcafee]

We often do this type of job.

Sometimes the mount may have more than one aperture but only one of which is to display the three dimensional object.

For these jobs we use a box within box solution, where the inner coved box is designed to fit the mount aperture and the outer one is designed to fit the frame. The outer box is made to barely clear the inner one so that a few blobs of adhesive may be applied between them which adds to the strength of the finished structure.

It looks good, is surprisingly sturdy, and does away with the need for a heavy frame.

[Trinity]

I get that John, thanks and I can have a go at it. It'll certainly enable me to keep the light feel to the whole thing. But, with a card box shrouding the cove box what kind of fixings would you consider and how would you fix to the outer box. I'm unsure whether you'd still fix back to the frame using cord or to the outer box, but ideally I'd like to fix the whole thing flat back to the wall, though if it has to lean forward slightly I'll have to compromise.

[JohnMcafee]

We "spot weld" the outer box to the frame with hot glue, and attach the cord to "D" rings on the frame, or, if the frame is narrow, screw rings.

[Trinity]

Thanks again John, you handled this help single handidly! There's no way then that you would fix a mirror plate somehow to the box and get it flat back?

I'll let you get on after this one!

[JohnMcafee]

This method does not lend itself to the use of picture plates. I suppose a batton could be attached to the base of the box, extending out either side, but I've never tried this, and it may not be a great look.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Trinity,

If you need to get a hot glue gun, it's worth paying the extra for a really good one. I use a Bosch one, which comes with a selection of different interchangable nozzles and it holds it's heat well so you don't need to keep stopping while the gun gets back to temperature after dispensing more than a few spots of glue.

[Roboframer]

I personally hate the look of anything poking out of the back of a frame, including another frame (a box)

With coved mounts I add another 25mm or so that can be folded back and stuck to a mount, as per ......

010[2].JPG

hamilton 006.JPG

[JohnMcafee]

Arguably, you get away with that Roboframer. I suppose it is a matter of personal preference for I used to make similar frames myself and at the time thought that they were pretty nifty. But I think I've moved on and no longer feel that the only solution to deep object framing is to throw more wood at it.

For example, just my personal view, but I shudder to think of the monstrosity that would result if this frame were to be slab sided in such a fashion.

[Trinity]

I've been following this thread with interest. I must say extending a 35 wide on face x 15mm deep moulding back the way by 90 mm does end up a bit slab sided and pretty heavy too. I aprreciate both sets of photos - I'm only onto job 5 using this method so haven't yet a real feel for what's best.

[Roboframer]

A frame is a slim cabinet, the more you have to get in it the deeper it needs to be.

I suppose it is a matter of personal preference for I used to make similar frames myself and at the time thought that they were pretty nifty. But I think I've moved on and no longer feel that the only solution to deep object framing is to throw more wood at it.

What you moved on to I left behind, and vice versa. That frame still sticks out from the wall as far as it needs to and personally I'd rather see a 'cabinet' than a heap of (what appears to be) brown sealing tape with cord going around it, or a box of any sort poking out the back, making the frame look like a facia, you can see the frame is not up to the job, depth-wise and you can also see how the problem has been solved - distracting IMHO.

[Roboframer]

I think the first job blows the second one away..........

Capped 002.JPG

Capped 003.JPG

[JohnMcafee]

No need to labour the point Roboframer, I understand, I think we all understand.

Like I said it is a matter of personal preference.

[silvercleave]

When it comes to boxing out the back or not I feel that it depends on the scale, the bus in Robo's picture IMHO would look tooo thick because it doesn't have the width or height so woule endup looking too boxxy, where as something wider and higher wouldn't look out of place...............................that's my twopeneth

PS: Thought you would have sold that bus by now Robo

Ian

[Roboframer]

It's just a prop Ian; when we made it it was my method of choice and now I hate it - looks like a bloody cuckoo clock

It's cheaper than the other method as you can use flat battens as opposed to a finished moulding mitred on its side and capped, but now the prop serves to help sell the other method, which no-one so far (customer-wise) has ever seen before.

[Nigel Nobody]

John,
Your cove mat frame looks good and I have used that method a couple of times. I'm not all that fond of the appearance from the side. One drawback I've found is that after hanging for a while, the hanging wire/cord will distort the cove mat where it presses on it.


I like your first example Robo, but I sometimes have to use the second example, because there just isn't a moulding deep enough to use the first example.

The different methods of creating a box frame are a matter of individual preference, not only preference of the framer, but preference of the customer as well.

[Roboframer]

I like your first example Robo, but I sometimes have to use the second example, because there just isn't a moulding deep enough to use the first example.

Left to my own ends I'll never use the framed box method again, there's a joiner local to me who can make a rebate in a plank pretty easily and there's a timber merchant with a massive computerised thing the size of my workshop which can do the same in seconds. Either could make the plank into narrower sections that my underpinner could handle which could be stacked (two rebates per section on opposite sides, like a 'Z') and/or the joiner could make the rebate AND join the box, with whatever joint he wanted, probably not a mitre.

[Not your average framer]

I think all of these different methods have their merits, but it is good to be able to offer the customer the choice of which method is used. Also none of these methods shown can be said to have reached the limit where further inovation and imaginative application are no longer possible and the objections raised to different methods do not always apply in every situation.

For example the sloping box method favoured by John, can involve a lot less work and material costs when really large objects need to be accomodated. This method can work very well when hung in the corner of a room touching two walls at right angles. If the customer is happy for a picture to hang like this, then this can be the perfect method and presentation.

It is also surprising how much extra strength can be added by utilising a thicker mountboard, such as a 2mm, 2.5mm board, or even thicker if the application merits it's use. It takes more time and effort to cut, if you are using a hand held knife, but with a sharp blade and practice it is soon mastered. Obviously CMC owners will find this a doddle to do!

Personally, I often use Roboframer's stacked frame method, again in the right situation and I have to admit being a convert from my original cockoo clock approach to Roboframer's current method, (largely in response to his presentations on this forum), but as the depth of build out on the sides increases then a third approach becomes visually more appealling.

What I am talking about is creating a stacked frame which slopes outward as the sides go back. In this particular case, it is usually much easier to achieve the desired effect with bare wood mouldings in conjunction with hand-finshing. With the right combination or mouldings this can look very elegant, even when considerable depths are to be accomodated. This method frees you from the limitations of ready finished mouldings where some moulding orientations are excluded by the lack of finish on necessary moulding faces.

Of course some very active and busy shops may simply have too many orders to get through to consider hand finishing. However less pressured shops which are not currently offering hand-finishing, but are looking to increase their sales and reputation, may find hand-finished work a very advantageous addition to their normal work.

[Roboframer]

There's a nifty method of making a back box in this Grumble thread, I might have to look in to one of those pocket hole jigs.

[framemaker]

I got a Kreg Junior pocket hole kit a couple of months ago and it is
great for making anything from butt jointed frames, storage racks, work benches, or for making deep extensions to frames!