What will the GCF qualification get me?

[easypopsgcf]

I love the quote button

[Graysalchemy]

I'm trying my hardest to use it only where appropriate.

Sorry John

[EmmaS]

Oh dear, my first topic and I seem to have started some sort of GCF vs non-GCF gang war! Not my intention, though it's been very interesting to follow.

Can I just for a sec bring it back to the sentiments of my original question though and ask all the GCFs posting whether they gained their GCF qualification first and then used it to get their first job or whether (as I'd assume to be more the case) it was something gained later once you'd worked as a framer for a while? Because I'm starting to understand that to those who have it, it's of great value (and I'm not saying it shouldn't be) but to those who have worked for years successfully without it, it's not necessarily the be-all and end-all. So if I'm trying to find a framer to give me my first job and train me up a little more, perhaps I need to find out whether THEY have a GCF or not, and pitch it accordingly?

[Graysalchemy]

I think you need to ascertain from the prospective company whether it would be of benefit in that case. Getting a GCF will not be a quick thing, and it may be a while before you can enter the job market, in which time you may have got a job with aframer prepared to give you some training and pay you. I would send out a cv to prospective framers and see the response. You could always say that it is your aim to go for the GCF.

Don't get me wrong I am not against a framing qualification or standards of framing it's just the current system to me appears to have fundamental flaws in it.

Cheers

AG

[prospero]

Taking an exam and gaining a recognised qualification will demonstrate to customers and potential employers that at the least you have made efforts and possess a certain level of skill and knowledge. Can't do any harm. But I can't help thinking - who tested the testers? I'm assuming that these are people who have gained their knowledge though years of experience working in the business. Probably passed on from other framers who have gone before....... And everybody has their own individual ways of looking at things that don't always coincide.
I've seen frames that have come from very prestigious establishments that would make you cringe.

[huntvambo]

Hi Emma,

I've sat back and watched this thread with interest as well.

I only started framing 18 months ago, probably not the best time to start! I did a few days working with a friend who has his own business and then a weeks training with a GCF on an FATG accredited course. Shows how easy it is to set up a framing business

I work from home, bought new quality equipment and materials and joined the FATG as I felt that having the FATG logo on my website, stationary, flyers etc. gave my business some creditability although very few of the general public have any idea that the FATG exists let alone what it does or doesn't do.

I read every framing book I can get my hands on, follow this forum and The Grumble, attend the seminars at the Spring Fair, Lion Event, Framer’s Forum Event and generally try to keep up with all the latest the info.

I took and passed the GCF exams back in September and the one thing that I really gained from it was self confidence that I am doing things correctly or at least to the Guild standards. Being a lone framer means that I don’t have anyone to police my work, except me and my customers and they only see the outside not what makes up the frame package. Sometimes even if you think you are doing things correctly and following the latest advice you still question yourself so it was good to have someone take apart my work and confirm what I’m doing is to an acceptable level.

The other benefit is the “press” coverage you can get when you pass which helps bring in the customers. You have to try and set yourself above your competitors and even if the customer doesn’t know what a GCF is he may still read the article and remember you when it comes to having something framed.

I also explain to most customers how I’m going to frame there piece and why I do it in a particular way, try and educate them as well. If it’s a re-frame I’ll take it apart while they are there and explain any issues with the original framing and how I’ll do it differently.

I work mostly to the conservation level of framing as I personally don’t think there is much difference cost wise between conservation and commended level. The exception being I use “quality” self adhesive backing tape rather than gummed and sometimes use flexible tabs rather than framers points. However if I’m selling a frame as conservation level it is completed to conservation level or above.

If you are confident in your ability to pass the GCF exam then take it, it can only be good for you; even if you’re not an FATG member you can still put it on your CV and it shows a level of commitment to good practice and a keen interest on your part. It doesn’t guarantee that you will work to the Guild standards but it should at least show a prospective employer that you know the difference.

I’m now getting a reasonable level of repeat customers and customer recommendations so hopefully I doing something right and to date I’ve not had any complaints. Basically if I’m not happy with my work it gets re-done.

Perhaps GCF's should be required to re-take the exam or have their work examined by an “expert” on a regular basis, mystery shopper! I know the Guild standards aren’t the be all and end all of framing and that the framer down the road may be better than me even if he’s not a GCF but it does show a level of commitment to quality.


Paul GCF
Framed in Alvechurch

[framemaker]

Hi Emma,

I think most framers would have worked for a while first, either for themselves or been employed before getting the GCF qualification. Maybe for some new to framing it is a priority make them stand out from other businesses around them.

I have never got round to taking the GCF exam, and doubt I ever will, but I still think it is very worthwhile for the average framer. The PR in your local paper from passing the exam could generate business, and you would be doing your bit towards educating the public about what the GCF is and how industry standards matter.

If a job applicant has passed the GCF test, then I don't understand how this can be seen as anything but a good thing!

In any profession there will be people who don't follow guidelines, whether they a monitored or not, I'm sure I've seen the odd story about an accountant or solicitor straying from the straight and narrow.

In short, as a relative newcomer to framing, I think getting the GCF qualification would increase your chance of getting a job.

[Graysalchemy]

In any profession there will be people who don't follow guidelines, whether they a monitored or not, I'm sure I've seen the odd story about an accountant or solicitor straying from the straight and narrow.

Exactly and they would have been dealt with, because these professional bodies have systems in place to deal with them.

[huntvambo]

"because these professional bodies have systems in place to deal with them."

They are only dealt with if they're caught and because the are generally breaking the law not because they are not capable or inferior

They are still 1000's of bad "professionals" who are only in their profession for the money and offer poor quality of service

[Graysalchemy]

That is true but there are plenty of professional bodies which are not governed by the law of the land but still protect the integrity of their standards.

Most of the GCF's on here seem to use their exam qualification to distinguish themselves from other non GCF framers. This doesn't mean that they are any better or more experienced. In fact a lot of new framers seem to be taking the exam as perhaps part of their training, no doubt the framing schools suggest you should go on another course.

The GCF as far as I can see is about standards and providing participants a competitive edge, all I am saying is that those standards, if you are a GCF and selling yourself as a GCF, should be met and maintained and perhaps that requires some form of intervention by the guild the monitor standards.

The reason I wouldn't become a GCF is that I don't think it would give me any competative edge in my field of framing, I frame to standards befitting the artwork in question and do try an keep up to date with current practices.

Isn't it about time the new CEO of the guild joined in the debate.

[stcstc]

I have read this thread with great intrest

I have considered the GCF exams, mainly from a marketing point of view. but also to extend my knowledge.

As what i do is a very focused market of photography framing i felt a lot of the stuff in the gcf just wasnt for me.

I do agree if people use the gcf as a marketing advantage etc, they should try and stick to the standards.

to the origional poster - i have had 4 partime people working for me now. none of them had experience, one has gone off and now works in a very high end place in london, and is now learning things again in a very different way and field of framing.
If i was in your posistion i would be looking for work, as spending money on the exams etc aint as you can see gonna gaurentee you a job.

so go earn some cash, and as things progress the gcf exam maybe a very good step in personal development from there.


MOD NOTE
What i will say though is this thread now seems to be not going anywhere. i think it has run its course.I think we could debate it forever and not get anywhere.

I think we should give up trying to decide who is right or wrong about the exams and standards in this thread and get back to making some cash money,

[Graysalchemy]

I was wondering when we would have mod intervention. However there are issues here which have been raised and I was hoping for a reply from the guild to what there position on this matter was, as it is their qualification and standard.

[stcstc]

yep i agree AG.

not suggesting we stop the thread, just think its is going a bit in circle, you agree?

if your going to spring fair maybe its a good question to ask the guild, I know i am going to ask about the GCF and what it can do for me

[Graysalchemy]

Yes we should be giving Emma our words of advice and support, which is what i was doing originally until someone decided they didn't like what I had written.

[stcstc]

ok, i do agree with your sentiments about standards etc. and like you said i think the important thing is to give the help to the OP.

I am not sure we will do that very well though if we keep debating the details of the GCF etc

well i think we should leave it at that though now, as i said earlier

i think healthy debate is good, but i dont think this one is going anywhere now.

Is that fair enough?

[Graysalchemy]

Ok agreed, thanks for the support of my sentiments. It is an issue which effects us all gcf or not.

Thanks

AG

[EmmaS]

Ok, well as it seems to be wrapping up I'll say a final thanks to everyone for their advice and encouragement... you guys are so lovely and helpful, I hope I can find framers as willing to take pity on a young enthusiast here in Edinburgh! I'm sure after a little more training I'll come up with lots more questions to hassle you all with...

[Mary Evans]

I’m really sorry to come in so late, when you are about to close this discussion. I haven’t been into TFF much recently and have only just picked up on this thread and there are some points I’d like to answer.

1. A couple of posts have suggested that GCF framers cannot promote their qualification unless they are Guild members. I would like to point out that this is a misunderstanding. Non-members are not permitted to use the GCF logo on their promotional material, eg ads or letter headings, because it includes the Guild logo which suggests membership. However, they are welcome to use the wording ”Guild Commended Framer” or any other text to inform customers or others of their GCF status. They are also encouraged to display their certificate (which does contain the GCF logo) and wear the GCF badge if they wish.

The Framers Committee are aware that this situation does cause some criticism of the Guild. It is already on our agenda for discussion, but I cannot see the Guild being in a position to alter the logo in the near future as this would involve considerable expense.

2. There is also discussion about the standard of work produced by GCF framers. This is a qualification, like an “A” level or a degree, and the qualification cannot be taken away. What it does do is indicate that the framer has a sound knowledge of good framing practices and materials up to conservation level framing. As someone has already pointed out this doesn’t necessarily mean that they have to frame to a high level every time – in some cases the item may be intended for short-term display and/or the customer may not be prepared to pay for better framing. However the Guild is concerned when they hear of bad workmanship from a GCF and is very happy to take it up with them. But we can only do this if someone is prepared to make a formal complaint. The Framers Committee have received a number of complaints about the work of GCF framers but when asked to complain formally the complainer usually doesn’t want to, which slightly leaves us between the devil and the deep blue sea!

Another suggestion has been that we should police as mystery shoppers. We tried this a number of years ago. Out of perhaps a dozen or 20 pictures framed this way none used masking tape or were bad enough to make the exercise worthwhile, and the Guild had to pay retail price for the framing!

If anyone on the Forum has any ideas for a better way of following up poor workmanship by GCFs the Framers Committee would be very happy to consider it.

3. As for continued development, there are plenty of opportunities for framers to keep up to date and improve their skills. The Guild has organised a programme of seminars at the Spring Fair in Birmingham next month, and these are free to anyone who cares to go. I gather TFF plan a seminar programme in Stratford in March, Lion had seminars at their day last September, and there are trade magazines, numerous books available from the Guild (available to members and non-members) and talks at Guild branch meetings. Some framers really make the most of these opportunities, and others just don’t – you can take a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink!

4. As most readers are probably aware, the Guild has undergone some personnel changes this month. My personal hope is that the Guild will become more approachable and work to improve its image both within the industry and to the general public. The Framers Committee would welcome any constructive comments or suggestions from any Forum members.

Mary Evans
Chairman, Guild Framers Committee

[stcstc]

Hey mary

Thanks for your reply, its great to see the guild getting involved here. and its great to here that you are trying to be proactive it trying to keep standards etc.

I guess its difficult to control or monitor gcf framers etc. and the mystery shopper idea i think is a bit of a lottery as to catching anyone up to no good.

One idea is i had about this is. what about if every GCF had a framers number (for want of a better explanation), this number was then put on every one of their frames. this frame is then traceable etc which has benefits for the GCF. but also means if another framer has to do something with the piece, reframe or whatever, if there is something wrong they could take pics and send to the guild, its then traceable to the framer. but it also means both framers could effectivley find each other too allowing framers to trace history of the piece etc.

on a separate note. I have looked at the GCF course. but as i have said above, my market is very focused, photography printing and framing.

the gcf seems to have lots of stuff in it which just doesnt fit what i do, textiles framing etc.

I would like to see the GCF change slightly so that instead of doing various types of framing, an applicant could decide to specialize in one area, for example photographic framing or memorabilia etc etc.

this would allow framers who just are not going to do general framing to participate without having to do a bunch of stuff they are never going to use.

the other area that i would like to see adapted is the mount cutting side, things like ruling pen workmanship doesnt fit with many framers, i am sure there are not many people doing it anymore i would think, or not as many. Also update it more for the technology based framers using cmc machines and design software etc

[Nigel Nobody]

Good for you Mary! Great to see you here posting that information.

As you said, policing standards of GCF/CPF/MCPF framer's work in a random way is just not practical, due to financial factors and due to the restraints placed on the framer by some customers.

Organisations like FATG, PPFA just don't have unlimited funds to throw around in that way. One of the main reasons is that most framers don't join and pay their annual fees! The ones that do join, then have the responsibilty of attempting to help the industry as a whole with their annual subscription and their time and effort.

Maybe the people who are not members of an industry organisation should not be so critical until they pay their dues and put some of their skills into making a difference in an organization and the industry???