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Hi there not sure if any of you have been contacted by the PRS for music but we were 2 years ago. I now pay annual fee to play copywright music in our work place in our case BBC Radio five. We got a call last week and the person asked if we had our PRS music licence to which we replied we did. They went onto to say that we also needed a PPL Music licence. As a result I now have bill backdated a year and an invoice for the coming year. The cost of our £9.99 radio from Morrisons is now costing a small fortune. We will remove the radio when the current licences elapses.
Just thought i would let you know that as soon as you say yes you play music they will invoice you !! and they will take action if not paid.
I believe if you play music thats not copy written your ok
Cheers
Nick
PS on a different note we have recently purchased the Gunnar Hybrid F1 and we will soon be putting out Wizard CMC and stand ( stand unopened ) up for sale if interested please contact me and i will forward the details.
These guys called me about a year ago trying to ask similar questions, which I ignored, instead I asked them how they got our number and if they were aware that our number was registered with the Telephone Preference Service (TPS) and that we refuse to accept unsolicited sales calls. I then told them that if they didn't hang up immediately I would report them for telephone abuse. They did, and I haven't heard from them since.
I have no intention of promoting their product on my premises free of charge. I just can't get my head around the logic that says that I have to pay them.
We do occasionally play much music in the shop, but only Royalty Free Radio.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing"
(Also known as John, the current forum administrator)
The PRS is for the artist and PPL is for the music !!!! Very confusing and to be honest the PPL used very underhand tactics on getting the info. I have requested the tape recording of the conversation as during this conversation they said they would send an information pack only. 2 days later a bill for £200 + arrived. On a plus point we are totally legal now
Here's a thing - there's only me here (except when a customer calls in). In the office/gallery I listen to my own music via a pc, from CD's which I own, recorded to a hard drive for ease of access. In the workshop, I have a radio normally tuned to Radio 4, but occasionally to R2 depending on who's presenting. If we assume that I turn off the music as a courtesy when people visit, do I need a licence?
Youth and experience are no match for age and treachery...
I read a letter in the August Art Business Today about the PPL & PRS and decided not to worry about it. Guess what arrived in the post at my workshop today?.... a letter from the PRS!
From the PRS website: "If you are the only person working on a premises (lone worker), and music is not audible to anyone who visits the premises (such as your clients), then PRS for Music does not charge a licence fee."
I do have the radio on all day and I am a "lone worker" and do turn the radio off when customers visit so I suppose I'm exempt from a licence? The letter says I can email them to explain my situation and they will update their records.
Anyway, back to work... I've got waxed frames that need polishing.... while I'm listening to Radio 2
You will find quite a lot of previous postings on this subject - most of it fairly bitter from me. Having just had the renewal forms through for both PPL and PRS I am reminded just how niggley I was this time last year after a chap came into my shop who I thought was a customer. Anyway - he wasnt and he commented that he could hear a radio in the background - It was Radio 4 in my workshop - on so low you really had to try hard to hear it in the shop. The outcome was a huge bill from the PPL - backdating my fees by 2 years for non compliance etc etc. I took legal advice from the FSB - It was pay up as you dont have a leg to stand on - and the PPL will take you to the cleaners. By this stage an exceedingly aggressive collection agency had become involved. I ended up compromising with the PPL and agreed to pay for a licence - as well as contacting the PRS and getting a licence from them as well.
I have to say that I felt that I had been mugged by the PPL - They were aggressive - they were prepared to lie - and they have all the cards in their hands. I had spent far too much time mucking around trying to find a way around paying - even consulting a specialist law firm to try and fight them. The law firms advice was to try and compromise and they thought that I had managed to get a good result - most dont.
So to define how this works. They're are only 2 ways to avoid paying the PPL and PRS if you have a space where members of the public could possibly here your "broadcast". 1 Silence 2 Royalty Free music.
Royalty free music could drive you mad - its so bad. Silence could do the same to me.
Buying CDs or MP3s makes no difference - its not your music. Listening only to talk radio - They play music occasionally so you are contravening the laws.
Sadly my advice is call the PPL and PRS if you listen to music and get the licences. If they catch you out they will act as if they have the right to take you to the cleaners. According to the legal firm who specialised in taking them on - They had been prepared to take legal action that was way out of proportion to the amount they might recover - The courts always found in their favour. I spent a lot of time writing to mps etc, no one seemed to care that this imposes huge costs on small businesses who only want to listen to music in their personal space.. Oh - you can listen to music through headphones - so there are 3 ways of avoiding paying. By the way - if you listen to royalty free radio - or play royalty free mp3s cds etc - make sure you can physically prove that you are listening to this form of music - as they wont believe you just saying I was listening to royalty free music.
I am a little confused here; the PRS website states for lone workers a licence will not be required:
"Lone workers - workplaces with only one worker, where music is not made available to any visitors/customers coming onto the premises. "
The PPL website states:
"Whenever a music recording is played in a commercial environment, even if only one person can hear it, it becomes a public performance and a fee is payable to PPL."
So, as a loneworker I don't need the PRS but do need the PPL?
PRS seem to be a lot less aggressive and far less proactive than the PPL. But once you get a PPL licence - you almost by default need a PRS licence. The important factor is the customer - if they can hear your music - then you need a licence. That customer may well one day be a PPL rep - he/she will appear to be a nice unassuming person who has jut come in to have a chat about licensing - the advantages etc. A little while later you get a letter demanding payment - No choices - no right of appeal - just pay up.
I've just checked the PPL website, and it's nigh on impossible to find out in advance (without actually APPLYING for a licence) how much it's going to cost. I'll wait until they come knocking. Then I'll start a fight........quietly....
People who are so deliberate about avoiding publication of their 'charging scheme' are generally, IMHO, shysters.
PRS, no probs. Nice and open. Our licence, which I'll sort on Monday, is going to cost £297.54 + VAT, unless I get a reduction 'cos there's only four of us.......
Youth and experience are no match for age and treachery...
As much as I hate these organisations we miss classic FM in the shop - for the news as well as the music. We unplugged the ariel and have never had the radio on since we started getting phone calls and letters from PRS. Far as I'm concerned if I have a commercial station playing, they, if anything, should pay me a fee for the extra ears their adverts hit!
A couple of weeks ago I had a very sneaky call from PPL; I'd never heard of them and thought it was a bandwagon-jumping scammer. The voice said it wanted to send me an information package, but to make sure it was the right one, what type of music did we play on the premises and how, radio, CD, Computer, other?
I told them, after a brief conversation to establish they were legit, we didn't play any music in the shop; then the voice asked if we had internet access - I said "why - do you want to send me an email with a music attachment so's you can get me that way? The internet is for our website and emails" (Plus TFF of course)
I'm guessing their next step is to send someone along in the hope I'm telling porkies so's they can fine me as well, but they'll hear no music playing, or anything else - the speakers are still quite visible though.
So, if I wanted to be 'legal' with PRS and PPL, how much does anyone reckon it would cost me for a radio playing classic FM in the shop with 3 members of staff and, say, an average of 60 customers a day, plus a radio in the workshop playing whatever radio stations plus the odd CD for mainly 2 of us?
I'd just divide the amount in to the average amount of frames per year and add the result on to every frame anyway - which would be pennies, and also mean a little profit because we do a lot more than frames.
I'd still hate them though - I mean - if music being played attracts custom, fair enough, but if it's just incidental, especially with small potatoes like us, it's very sharp practice. I could be a total socialite throwing parties at home every week, with scores, or hundreds of guests - music would be a huge part of it, would I need a PRS/PPL licence for that?
The liscence fees are calculated on the square meter or footage of your premises. One point to note is to play your music through a portable radio as the tarrif from PRS is lower for portable radios ( my next door neighbour has a shope exactly the same size as mine. but pays more than twice as much because he has a hifi system for his music!)
We missed our music; we switched the radio back on and agreed that next time they wrote/rang, we'd fess up.
They rang, we fessed up, the next few days we were plagued with calls from both PRS and PPL to establish square footage, how long we'd been playing music etc etc. There'll be a small price increase in the new year on certain things to cover it all and then a bit.
and do turn the radio off when customers visit so I suppose I'm exempt from a licence? The letter says I can email them to explain my situation and they will update their records.
