which way up?

[holtons]

If I were to say to you ' I want a frame 20" x 30" ' which orientation would you think it is?

This is actually a serious question because of the way Google works on certain product searches. Let's see if we think the same way as consumers!
Steve

[Jonny2morsos]

I would say it is 20" wide by 30" high (portrait) but that is because we have set up a system of work where we always write the dimensions as width first, height second. This is because we enter data into a CMC which asks for X dimension then Y dimension.

I think customers will see it either way.

[Steve Goodall]

I come from the photograhic trade originally & photographic papers & ready made frames were traditionally always quoted in catalogues with the smaller dimension first - like so...

5 x 7
6 x 8
8 x 10
12 x 16
16 x 20
etc...

However - in the photo trade the terms "ten by eight" or "twnenty by sixteen" were used a lot - confusing...

The way the paper was then printed or the orientation of the frame - meant nothing in these circumstances - but what always winds me up is a list of products that goes...

6 x 4
5 x 7
8 x 6
10 x 8
10 x 12

..and I have seen more than one recently

[silvercleave]

If I were to say to you ' I want a frame 20" x 30" ' which orientation would you think it is?
Steve

Steve, I would ask you if you would like it Portrait or Landscape

Ian

[Max Roberts]

I also came from the photographic industry years ago. It was actually "Up" or "View" Ian! I'd also agree with Steve about how we sized things and his other comment about the 20 x 16, 10x8. All very confusing. Generally I'd go with width x height.

[huntvambo]

Coming from an engineering background I always say width x height

Paul
Framed in Alvechurch

[JohnMcafee]

I once had a customer who rejected a readymade frame because it was "quite clearly labeled" 12 x 10, whereas she needed a 10 x 12.

Google search results are interesting:-
"8 x 10" - 87m
"10 x 8" - 51m

"10 x 12" - 45m
"12 x 10" - 45m

"16 x 20" - 40m
"20 x 16" - 27m

I agree with Ian (Silvercleave), never assume that the convention in this matter is universally understood, always get clarification as to which dimension is the height, and which the width.

[mikeysaling]

when we do DIY frames for folk (usually ordered on the internet) we always ask whether portrait or landscape also we ask is the size requested the visual or back size - our inner frames have 1/4 inch rebate so thats 1/2 ich wider and 1/2 inch taller !

[ceebdub]

I only make square frames, much easier !

[JB183244D]

Why not just send them the frame with 2 'D' rings, 2 screws and a length of cord and they can hang it anyway they want!!

[kuduframes]

If you go by Fine Art Trade Guild standards it would always be height first, so in this case a 20 x 30 would be landscape.....best to qualify it every time

[Roboframer]

Right, that's it then, I'm doing it the other way!

Welcome to the forum Kudu.

I've always done the side measurement first (so that 20x30 would be landscape) and as long as everyone in the same workplace does it the same I don't suppose it really matters. Things can get quite confusing if people working together do it differently, (or most else I suppose) especially when it comes to bottom-weighted mounts.

[misterdiy]

I must admit I had never heard of this problem before. Throughout my whole working life it has always been length x breadth x height, so therefore it has to be length x height as their is no breadth. Why anyone would want to measure the height first is beyond me, but then I am a simple fellow who likes an ordered life.

As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, CMC's always use the X axis (length) first, so it must be true. As for photographers using 8 x 10 and 16 x 20 rather than 10 by 8 and 20 by 16 must say something about them. After all photographic paper is blank so it doesnt matter which way it's up.

I shall now go and mow my 20 x 16 lawn. If I got this wrong the mower end up in the pond

[holtons]

The purpose of my post was to point out that consumers at large don't necessarily think the way we might. If you promote picture frames on the internet you might list a frame as '8x10 picture frame' but that isn't necessarily what a UK consumer might type into a search engine when looking for one. The figures below from Google for UK search terms shows how much the behaviour varies and there is no real pattern:

4x6 picture frame - 51%
6x4 picture frame - 49%

6x8 picture frame - 31%
8x6 picture frame - 69%

8x10 picture frame - 48%
10x8 picture frame - 52%

10x12 picture frame - 34%
12x10 picture frame - 66%

11x14 picture frame - 59%
14x11 picture frame - 41%

12x16 picture frame - 38%
16x12 picture frame - 62%

16x20 picture frame - 54%
20x16 picture frame - 46%

20x30 picture frame - 57%
30x20 picture frame - 43%

24x36 picture frame - 49%
36x24 picture frame - 51%

30x40 picture frame - 56%
40x30 picture frame - 44%

Even if there was an industry standard way of describing a picture frame dimensions it wouldn't necessarily help consumers find what they are looking for in the online environment. For those of you with active web sites trying to attract search traffic, it still leaves the problem of deciding which dimension, smallest or largest, to put first in your product description and web page titles?

[framemaker]

I also thought that the industry standard was height first then width, I was under the impression this had been the rule for a good couple of hundred years.

So, if you read a picture, photograph or painting dimension and the first measurement is the biggest, you immediately know it is portrait.

But, my pricing program is width first, and I have worked with people who insist it is width first, so that messes it up really.

[Not your average framer]

I was trained to quote the width first followed by the height, but on ready made frames the largest dimension was always quoted as the first dimension. I've no idea why!

I not sure if there is any particular advantage in whichever dimension comes first. Does it matter? If so can anyone explain why please?

I was also trained to cut the longer lengths of moulding first, so that if you make a mistake, then there may be a possibility of using them for the shorter lengths.