Having just received a brochure from SWAFine Art, I was quite taken by the Concorde print. It states Limited Edition of 500. Retail price £93.00 +VAT. Signed by the Last Flying Pilot of Concorde. So a Good price and will sell out very quickly.
However, (and didnt you know that was going to be there). In very small print underneath is the statement. At a later date, this will be available unlimited and unsigned. !!!!!
I know what the Guild has to say about Ltd Eds, but this supplier does not belong to the Guild.
I spoke to SWA and queried the ethics of selling a print as a Ltd Ed now and as an open print in the future. The comment that came back was "It will not be a Ltd Ed in the future because it will not be signed (and here is me thinking that it was the image that counted not the signature) and as we are a small business, we have to make our revenue somehow also if Washington Green can produce prints as Ltd Eds, then produce them as Jigsaws and art cards, then so will we. "
My belief is that SWA are cashing in on the ignorance of the Public and doing the art world no favours at all.
Trading standards were not much help either, lack of knowledge on their part and it would need a very expensive test case to sort it out.
Be interesting to hear what others think. Maybe SWA should have advertised it as 'Special Edition' or 'Commemorative Edition' instead !!!
Limited Edition Print or Open Edition
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Underpinner
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Fri 27 Feb, 2004 8:59 pm
- Location: Cardiff
- Organisation: No business
- Interests: Music, painting, reading
- Location: Cross Inn, Llanon, Ceredigion.
Limited Edition Print or Open Edition
Following Merlin Framers' comment
"My belief is that SWA are cashing in on the ignorance of the Public and doing the art world no favours at all.
"Trading standards were not much help either, lack of knowledge on their part and it would need a very expensive test case to sort it out."
The miserable old cynic in me feels very tempted to respond that limited edition prints have been cashing in on the ignorance of the public for as long as L/Es have been available. On the other hand, the Guild's effort to apply some standards to L/Es a few years ago were doubtless for the best intentions, and I have no argument with the quality of the best prints. But I have never understood why a number makes any difference.
If trading standards were lacking in knowledge of L/Es etc. could it be because FATG standards are not yet (so far as I know) incorporated into the law?
"My belief is that SWA are cashing in on the ignorance of the Public and doing the art world no favours at all.
"Trading standards were not much help either, lack of knowledge on their part and it would need a very expensive test case to sort it out."
The miserable old cynic in me feels very tempted to respond that limited edition prints have been cashing in on the ignorance of the public for as long as L/Es have been available. On the other hand, the Guild's effort to apply some standards to L/Es a few years ago were doubtless for the best intentions, and I have no argument with the quality of the best prints. But I have never understood why a number makes any difference.
If trading standards were lacking in knowledge of L/Es etc. could it be because FATG standards are not yet (so far as I know) incorporated into the law?
John Williams
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SquareFrames
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Mon 23 Feb, 2004 9:37 am
- Location: Dromore, Co. Down, Northern Ireland
- Organisation: Dromore Picture Framing / Down School of
- Interests: Reading, relaxing, and funnily enough, its hard to stop thinking of framing
- Location: Dromore, Northern Ireland
- Contact:
Limited or Open Editions
Hi All,
As you both stated the Guild's position is very clear on LE's and the policy surrounding their production and marketing. I cannot understand Trading Standards positiion, they should know what the policy is, all the local office had to do was contact the Guild or their main office and the policy would have been made clear. Failing that, all they had to do was look up the policy on the Guild's website, its all there. To make it simple, once the run has been finished, either the plate or digital image is destroyed so that no other images can be produced from that. Crystal clear, isnt it?
As for Washington Green, but I didnt know they produced jigsaws or cards, especially out of LE's, thats a new one on me. I havent seem Washington Green even do an Open Edition for a ong, long time. Most of the LE prints we buy in for our clients come from Washington Green, the others from De Monfort and Solomon & Whitehead, I havent seen jigsaw or anything else, 'yet'
'Merlin' my suggestion is, send your posting to Mike Simms (Editior) at the Guild office, maybe he could insert it into the next ABT, I know the deadline is coming up soon, or send it to Picture Business (Stephen Spear, Editor) See what the magazines can do for you.
I do not know the way you both work on prints, but they way we do it here (and its getting quite successful) if plenty of Washington Green, De Monfort and Solomon & Whitehead brochures lying around the gallery, we let the clients pick their own, pay for it, we order it and within 2 to 3 days we have delivery and then frame it. We dont keep any in stock, we were caught years ago when we first opened with literally 100's of LE's and OE prints that no one either liked or wanted, my wife in her wisdom decided that from then on, prints were simply 'To Order' (We ended up, that we gave 90% of the prints we had in stock alongwith the plan chest and browser away to a special school in the area, for the kiddies to play with, now we carry no stock, and no dead money)
Hope you have a staisfactory outcome to your problem Merlin. Keep us informed.
Steven
As you both stated the Guild's position is very clear on LE's and the policy surrounding their production and marketing. I cannot understand Trading Standards positiion, they should know what the policy is, all the local office had to do was contact the Guild or their main office and the policy would have been made clear. Failing that, all they had to do was look up the policy on the Guild's website, its all there. To make it simple, once the run has been finished, either the plate or digital image is destroyed so that no other images can be produced from that. Crystal clear, isnt it?
As for Washington Green, but I didnt know they produced jigsaws or cards, especially out of LE's, thats a new one on me. I havent seem Washington Green even do an Open Edition for a ong, long time. Most of the LE prints we buy in for our clients come from Washington Green, the others from De Monfort and Solomon & Whitehead, I havent seen jigsaw or anything else, 'yet'
'Merlin' my suggestion is, send your posting to Mike Simms (Editior) at the Guild office, maybe he could insert it into the next ABT, I know the deadline is coming up soon, or send it to Picture Business (Stephen Spear, Editor) See what the magazines can do for you.
I do not know the way you both work on prints, but they way we do it here (and its getting quite successful) if plenty of Washington Green, De Monfort and Solomon & Whitehead brochures lying around the gallery, we let the clients pick their own, pay for it, we order it and within 2 to 3 days we have delivery and then frame it. We dont keep any in stock, we were caught years ago when we first opened with literally 100's of LE's and OE prints that no one either liked or wanted, my wife in her wisdom decided that from then on, prints were simply 'To Order' (We ended up, that we gave 90% of the prints we had in stock alongwith the plan chest and browser away to a special school in the area, for the kiddies to play with, now we carry no stock, and no dead money)
Hope you have a staisfactory outcome to your problem Merlin. Keep us informed.
Steven
Someone Once Said 'Knowledge Is Power'
Down School of Picture Framing http://www.downschoolofpictureframing.co.uk
Ireland's Only Accredited Training School
GCF Examination Centre
Accredited Valiani Demonstration / Training Centre
Down School of Picture Framing http://www.downschoolofpictureframing.co.uk
Ireland's Only Accredited Training School
GCF Examination Centre
Accredited Valiani Demonstration / Training Centre
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Merlin
- Posts: 1538
- Joined: Thu 05 Jun, 2003 5:50 pm
- Location: Cornwall
- Organisation: Merlin Mounts
- Interests: Aviation
Steven, like you we hold very few prints in stock, but do have a lot of brochure, print catalogues lying around. Yes successfull as well..
Following on from the starting thread. I had a long discussion with Trading Standards today. The bottom line. Quote "They are allowed to do it as long as a disclaimer is published in the brochure. This way no trade description act has been breached". Unquote.
On asking them. - If a grumpy customer started litigation when he found out that his advertised Ltd Ed print was no longer Limited. Who would he claim off.
The answer. Me, the retailer. Coz I too would have to display the disclaimer. Not good business practice really is it?? Advertising a Ltd Ed print for £100+ stating it will be an open print in the future.
Have emailed the letter to Picture Business and the FATG. I await with interest the replies.
Following on from the starting thread. I had a long discussion with Trading Standards today. The bottom line. Quote "They are allowed to do it as long as a disclaimer is published in the brochure. This way no trade description act has been breached". Unquote.
On asking them. - If a grumpy customer started litigation when he found out that his advertised Ltd Ed print was no longer Limited. Who would he claim off.
The answer. Me, the retailer. Coz I too would have to display the disclaimer. Not good business practice really is it?? Advertising a Ltd Ed print for £100+ stating it will be an open print in the future.
Have emailed the letter to Picture Business and the FATG. I await with interest the replies.
John GCF
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SquareFrames
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Mon 23 Feb, 2004 9:37 am
- Location: Dromore, Co. Down, Northern Ireland
- Organisation: Dromore Picture Framing / Down School of
- Interests: Reading, relaxing, and funnily enough, its hard to stop thinking of framing
- Location: Dromore, Northern Ireland
- Contact:
LE's Open Editions
Hi John,
As it has never yet been established as illegal to do this, but it is unethical. One way of getting Trading Standards to act is to 'be' a customer with a grievance who has been misled from the beginning without the disclaimer. They have to investigate complaints and that causes the perpetrator nuisance. The Guild has dealt with individual cases of complaints, sometimes via Trading Standard Officers.
I think that us Retailers should stipulate that their suppliers register their limited edition prints with the Guild AND certify open editions as never having been published as L/E's. Power of the buyer rules.
Fortunately I will be in the Guild office in London tomorrow (Thursday 16th) and will have a bit of time to discuss this in a little more detail, before I have my meeting.
I look forward to seeing it in the ABT and PB
Steven
As it has never yet been established as illegal to do this, but it is unethical. One way of getting Trading Standards to act is to 'be' a customer with a grievance who has been misled from the beginning without the disclaimer. They have to investigate complaints and that causes the perpetrator nuisance. The Guild has dealt with individual cases of complaints, sometimes via Trading Standard Officers.
I think that us Retailers should stipulate that their suppliers register their limited edition prints with the Guild AND certify open editions as never having been published as L/E's. Power of the buyer rules.
Fortunately I will be in the Guild office in London tomorrow (Thursday 16th) and will have a bit of time to discuss this in a little more detail, before I have my meeting.
I look forward to seeing it in the ABT and PB
Steven
Someone Once Said 'Knowledge Is Power'
Down School of Picture Framing http://www.downschoolofpictureframing.co.uk
Ireland's Only Accredited Training School
GCF Examination Centre
Accredited Valiani Demonstration / Training Centre
Down School of Picture Framing http://www.downschoolofpictureframing.co.uk
Ireland's Only Accredited Training School
GCF Examination Centre
Accredited Valiani Demonstration / Training Centre