Lynn
Welcome to the forum.
Don't get upset over any comments you may read in reply to your postings. Us framer's tend to have our own ideas over even the smallest subject for debate. ' Full and frank discussions ' generally ensue! We all get shot at a bit from time to time when we put our head above the parapet.
Most framers like the interchange of ideas; it keeps us up to date with others thoughts and you will gain from our lateral thinking.
Good luck.
long narrow frame
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foxyframer
- Posts: 313
- Joined: Tue 12 Sep, 2006 6:46 pm
- Location: Netley Marsh New Forest Hampshire
- Organisation: Hampshire Framing
- Interests: Golf, DIY and baking bread,cakes, biscuits and making chilli jams and various chutneys.
- Location: NEW FOREST HAMPSHIRE
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Roboframer
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Merlin
- Posts: 1540
- Joined: Thu 05 Jun, 2003 5:50 pm
- Location: Cornwall
- Organisation: Merlin Mounts
- Interests: Aviation
TTC
Thankyou for your FULL explanation. So actually it is a bit more than just Fletcher points and a tight bond with Lion Eco tape.
Just maybe, if you had given this explanation in the first place instead of saying 'You regularly make glazed frames from 1/2"....... never had a problem with the fitting or any bowing'
Then some of the replies would not have been made.
Yet as before, Thankyou for sharing your knowledge.
Thankyou for your FULL explanation. So actually it is a bit more than just Fletcher points and a tight bond with Lion Eco tape.
Just maybe, if you had given this explanation in the first place instead of saying 'You regularly make glazed frames from 1/2"....... never had a problem with the fitting or any bowing'
Then some of the replies would not have been made.
Yet as before, Thankyou for sharing your knowledge.
John GCF
You maybe right, BUT, had I done so then some of the responders that put forward their own suggestions as to how to cope with a frame of that size may never have been forthcoming, so maybe those replies will be of help to othersMerlin Framers wrote:TTC
Thankyou for your FULL explanation. ................
Just maybe, if you had given this explanation in the first place instead of saying 'You regularly make glazed frames from 1/2"....... never had a problem with the fitting or any bowing'
Then some of the replies would not have been made.
Yet as before, Thankyou for sharing your knowledge.
Lynn, on any forum whatever the subject you will come across some posters that will violently disagree with you. Just take the bits of advice that you feel are of help to you and ignore the 'upsetting' parts.lynnbmack wrote:Thanks for all the comments - some more caustic than others, some really quite upsetting.
All framers that I know, and I have known a lot over my 25+ years in the trade, have their own entrenched views on how to do a job and often their way is 'the only way'.
We sometimes throw up our hand in horror at the way work has been carried out by other framers when it is brought to us for either repair or reframing. Ever tried telling a client that those valuable cigarette cards that have been framed are worthless as they have been held onto the mount by adhesive tape? Or that valuable football shirt has been glued? Don't worry you will eventually come across these sorts of problems and have to find a diplomatic way of informing the customer.
We have all learned from our mistakes in taking on a job that at first seemed straightforward and turned out to be a pig of a job. Don't lose heart for as you gain experience you will also gain confidence and nearly always be able to find a way around the problem.
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Roboframer
My personal views are that large things in small frames look bad, not always admittedly - just generally.
If strength is an issue (there is no 'if') I think my advice was good, and that was use aluminium, which is strong, and you can go even smaller than half an inch (visible) if you want - or a wooden frame up to the job.
I also think it's good advice not to depend on tape etc etc for strength and I hate 'D' rings attached to the backboard - better framers than I do too -as well as agree on the other points.
It all boils down to 'what works for you' and if methods that I disagree with have stood the test of time (18 years is not that long) then who am I to argue.
Then again if I had £1 for every time I heard "But I've had stuff like this on my walls for X years and they are OK ...........
Talking about brown bevels, needlework against glass, needlework with no glass etc etc - what is my response supposd to be to these words?
Maybe - "Oh - OK then I'll rethink all my principles and stick that lovely embroidery down with copydex (bells ringing for anyone?) and slap it in a frame against the glass - I must have been wrong al this time"
I've been re-reading all this and the 'menace to our trade' bit was a bit strong - at least on this particular subject - but I can elaborate - it would be a new topic sometime. So apologies for that, but the gist of what I was thinking is what I mentioned above - i.e. I know at a glance the way things should be done - they contradict with the way things HAVE been done and justifying my methods and therefore, maybe higher charges is a right pain in the proverbials.
I posted a link to this on The Grumble - here some don't see a problem with small frame/large picture - and/or the methods used to make it good/safe; there - everyone does.
The length of time served as a framer is not always a measure of his/her level of skill and knowledge. You can be in the forces for 22 years with no promotion.
If strength is an issue (there is no 'if') I think my advice was good, and that was use aluminium, which is strong, and you can go even smaller than half an inch (visible) if you want - or a wooden frame up to the job.
I also think it's good advice not to depend on tape etc etc for strength and I hate 'D' rings attached to the backboard - better framers than I do too -as well as agree on the other points.
It all boils down to 'what works for you' and if methods that I disagree with have stood the test of time (18 years is not that long) then who am I to argue.
Then again if I had £1 for every time I heard "But I've had stuff like this on my walls for X years and they are OK ...........
Talking about brown bevels, needlework against glass, needlework with no glass etc etc - what is my response supposd to be to these words?
Maybe - "Oh - OK then I'll rethink all my principles and stick that lovely embroidery down with copydex (bells ringing for anyone?) and slap it in a frame against the glass - I must have been wrong al this time"
I've been re-reading all this and the 'menace to our trade' bit was a bit strong - at least on this particular subject - but I can elaborate - it would be a new topic sometime. So apologies for that, but the gist of what I was thinking is what I mentioned above - i.e. I know at a glance the way things should be done - they contradict with the way things HAVE been done and justifying my methods and therefore, maybe higher charges is a right pain in the proverbials.
I posted a link to this on The Grumble - here some don't see a problem with small frame/large picture - and/or the methods used to make it good/safe; there - everyone does.
The length of time served as a framer is not always a measure of his/her level of skill and knowledge. You can be in the forces for 22 years with no promotion.
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Roboframer
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markw
A husband and wife are dining at a table in a plush restaurant, and the
>husband keeps staring at a drunken lady swigging her drink as she sits
>alone At a nearby table.
>
>The wife asks, "Do you know her?"
>
>"Yes," sighs the husband, "She's my ex-girlfriend. I understand she
>started drinking right after we split up seven years ago, and I hear
>she hasn't been
>sober since."
>
>My Goodness!" says the wife, "Who would think a person could go on
>celebrating that long?"
I know its in the wrong place - but it seemed relevant.
I find it amusing that theres so much anger on this site when somebody asks a perfectly normal question. Sometimes the skill in the job is to do what the customer wants. Customer want long narrow frame - picture framer makes long narrow frame to best of his ability. This doesnt stop us as framers saying to customer - this isnt the best way to do this - I advise for the following reasons.
I have never turned a customer away because they chose the wrong moulding - I have charged them considerably more for the job because I knew it would be a challenge.
>husband keeps staring at a drunken lady swigging her drink as she sits
>alone At a nearby table.
>
>The wife asks, "Do you know her?"
>
>"Yes," sighs the husband, "She's my ex-girlfriend. I understand she
>started drinking right after we split up seven years ago, and I hear
>she hasn't been
>sober since."
>
>My Goodness!" says the wife, "Who would think a person could go on
>celebrating that long?"
I know its in the wrong place - but it seemed relevant.
I find it amusing that theres so much anger on this site when somebody asks a perfectly normal question. Sometimes the skill in the job is to do what the customer wants. Customer want long narrow frame - picture framer makes long narrow frame to best of his ability. This doesnt stop us as framers saying to customer - this isnt the best way to do this - I advise for the following reasons.
I have never turned a customer away because they chose the wrong moulding - I have charged them considerably more for the job because I knew it would be a challenge.
John,Roboframer wrote: I posted a link to this on The Grumble - here some don't see a problem with small frame/large picture - and/or the methods used to make it good/safe; there - everyone does.
I have travelled extensively over there and have seen some of the monstrosities they produce, bit like their cars in the 60s.
Five, large moulding frames, and a slip, stacked up on a piece about 20X16in, mind you it was an original "Kinkade".with a five figure price tag. 
This style of framing is very common over the pond,, I don't think it would go down so well here.Backing paper with holes in or peeling off was evident in a number of galleries I visited, and on many frames the corners were gobbed up with loads of filler. Floppy oils on canvas, with scruffy bits of fomecore glued on the back, hiding god knows what .
I have also witnessed first hand their ideas on restoration and preservation. First get rid off any and all signs of age, even if it is part of the beauty of the article, to us British anyway.
just because they do things differently dosnt make them right.
Oh and they do have a few super framers, but then so do we.
Mick
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The impossible I can do today,
Miracles take a little longer
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The impossible I can do today,
Miracles take a little longer
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Roboframer
I'm talking about The Grumble, not the States. The law of averages must dictate that they have far more cowboys than we do. By the same token they must have more excellent framers and some of the best, even if not all of the very best, freely give superb tips and advice on the grumble
I don't like a lot of their framing designs and by 'their' I DO mean The Grumble this time, but that's fine - everything is different over there, cars, houses, food, clothes, picture frames, as it is from country to country the world over. But there are many of their designs I DO like.
But when it comes to principles, methods and procedures, from basic to advanced and the willingness to share these by real experts, we are left in the shade I am afraid. Where are our experts and specialists? Not here on this forum, we've got our Industry's biggest name registered, but he's made no contribution to this discussion, and why should he anyway, there are only two options - frame the thing in a moulding up to the job or don't, and if you choose not to, or the customer does despite your advice -
fine - the choice is an informed one, where you go from there is up to you - do it or don't. I wouldn't, others would - no problem.
You say 'Just because they do things differently doesn't make them right'
Well my answer to that is a simple fact - long skinny bits of wood flex just as much here as they do the world over.
So - what's your take on the problem Mick?
I don't like a lot of their framing designs and by 'their' I DO mean The Grumble this time, but that's fine - everything is different over there, cars, houses, food, clothes, picture frames, as it is from country to country the world over. But there are many of their designs I DO like.
But when it comes to principles, methods and procedures, from basic to advanced and the willingness to share these by real experts, we are left in the shade I am afraid. Where are our experts and specialists? Not here on this forum, we've got our Industry's biggest name registered, but he's made no contribution to this discussion, and why should he anyway, there are only two options - frame the thing in a moulding up to the job or don't, and if you choose not to, or the customer does despite your advice -
fine - the choice is an informed one, where you go from there is up to you - do it or don't. I wouldn't, others would - no problem.
You say 'Just because they do things differently doesn't make them right'
Well my answer to that is a simple fact - long skinny bits of wood flex just as much here as they do the world over.
So - what's your take on the problem Mick?
John,
If properly designed and constructed as a whole package, I can see no reason for any structural problems with this long frame. It might look like crap to me, but then its not going on my wall.
As for sharing of information and experts, (how I hate that word). I have seen no unwillingness to share information here, and who decides who is an expert. Have you ever known 2 "experts" agree I do think we have some very knowledgeable framers over here on all aspects of the craft.
If properly designed and constructed as a whole package, I can see no reason for any structural problems with this long frame. It might look like crap to me, but then its not going on my wall.
As for sharing of information and experts, (how I hate that word). I have seen no unwillingness to share information here, and who decides who is an expert. Have you ever known 2 "experts" agree
I do think we have some very knowledgeable framers over here on all aspects of the craft.Mick
-----------------------------------------
The impossible I can do today,
Miracles take a little longer
---------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
The impossible I can do today,
Miracles take a little longer
---------------------------------------
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foxyframer
- Posts: 313
- Joined: Tue 12 Sep, 2006 6:46 pm
- Location: Netley Marsh New Forest Hampshire
- Organisation: Hampshire Framing
- Interests: Golf, DIY and baking bread,cakes, biscuits and making chilli jams and various chutneys.
- Location: NEW FOREST HAMPSHIRE
This narrow black cushion debate is generating a lot of heat.
If it wasn't for the panoramic school photo perpetuated by last years which has to match in perpetuity, it would probably not get a mention. So, if the customer wants black cushion, either to match previous, or it's thought to be cheap, then do the job as MarkW says to the best of your ability. The classic panoramic photo is the forty year old black and white, comes in coiled up like a watch-spring !
Personally I use narrow b/c as a last resort, along with narrow pine - narrow gold sighted brown and anything else that still lingers on from the early eighties.
If it wasn't for the panoramic school photo perpetuated by last years which has to match in perpetuity, it would probably not get a mention. So, if the customer wants black cushion, either to match previous, or it's thought to be cheap, then do the job as MarkW says to the best of your ability. The classic panoramic photo is the forty year old black and white, comes in coiled up like a watch-spring !
Personally I use narrow b/c as a last resort, along with narrow pine - narrow gold sighted brown and anything else that still lingers on from the early eighties.
Measure twice - cut once
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lynnbmack
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Tue 05 Dec, 2006 6:03 am
- Location: Gairloch
- Organisation: Lynn Bennett-Mackenzie
- Interests: art, reading, animals, gardening, walking, photography,
- Location: Gairloch, NW Scotland
- Contact:
Yes, the heat is certainly on! I wonder what other queries I can put in to attract such attention!
The pic in question is indeed a 25yr old black & white school photo which is as you say, coiled like a watch spring - fun, fun, fun! I think I will use Hedgehogs W hanging method - sounds stable!
From now on i will certainly be more watchful of which frames are best for which purpose - all a learning curve and certainly doesn't make for a dull life, (tho' sometimes the air can be a little blue when something goes wrong!) When I entered this trade, I certainly had little idea of the scope of different work involved, but am enjoying it immensly. I work from home by myself and it's good to know that there is a forum where I can find help etc.
The pic in question is indeed a 25yr old black & white school photo which is as you say, coiled like a watch spring - fun, fun, fun! I think I will use Hedgehogs W hanging method - sounds stable!
From now on i will certainly be more watchful of which frames are best for which purpose - all a learning curve and certainly doesn't make for a dull life, (tho' sometimes the air can be a little blue when something goes wrong!) When I entered this trade, I certainly had little idea of the scope of different work involved, but am enjoying it immensly. I work from home by myself and it's good to know that there is a forum where I can find help etc.
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markw
I had a big batch of these to frame for a local school - they had been donated by someone who obviously had a knack of rolling the things very tightly - and then stuffing them in a box for 30 years. They were not only like watch springs - they seemed to have warped to make them droop slightly at the edges. They had to match the other group photos - black hockey.
As the pictures were of local interest, with permission I put them in my window and they attracted lots of locals trying to find themselves or relatives. Cant recall anyone commenting about the terrible thin black framing used - but it did get a few customers in with equally well sprung photos.
I dont have a long sandy beach to walk along in the sunshine - But a sunny walk in the rolling Cotswolds was a real treat today (day off - but the VAT return has to be finished today). Spring has suddenly erupted and the Beech woods were full of early spring flowers.
As the pictures were of local interest, with permission I put them in my window and they attracted lots of locals trying to find themselves or relatives. Cant recall anyone commenting about the terrible thin black framing used - but it did get a few customers in with equally well sprung photos.
I dont have a long sandy beach to walk along in the sunshine - But a sunny walk in the rolling Cotswolds was a real treat today (day off - but the VAT return has to be finished today). Spring has suddenly erupted and the Beech woods were full of early spring flowers.
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Roboframer