How do you measure?

[strokebloke]

This may seem like a very inane question, but ....
I would appreciate some advice/guidance.

When I measure up for a frame, I start with the mountboard/glass dimensions, then add on 2mm in both directions.
I then measure what I call the 'margin' of the framing section (the dimension from the depth of the rebate to the edge of the section) then double it, and then add it to the mountboard dimension (+2mm)
If that makes sense to anyone: is that the conventional manner of measuring up frame section material?
Is there any device upon the Morso which will enable me to measure from the rebate dimensions (mountboard size)? - rather than the outside of the frame

Jack

[prospero]

Well most Morsos have a long scale and a sliding stop with a smaller scale attached. The small scale increments are double what they should be to account for both ends. There should also be a scale going across near the right of the cutting head. So you mitre one end - slide the moulding over the cross scale and by leaning over you can read the width of the back of the moulding. Say it's 38mm. You then set 38mm on the scale on the sliding stop to align with your desired rebate length and lock the stop. When you cut the other end the rebate should be exactly the length you want.

Some models have other systems, but that's the one I have always used.

[Jonny2morsos]

There should be a sliding Vernier type scale on the stop on the RH measuring scale.

I only have experience of a metric scale and for that you set the length you need to cut having allowed 2mm over the mount/glass size on the measuring arm. Then measure the distance from the back of the moulding to the inside of the rebate on the scale which is at the point the extension arm joins on. Line up this value on the sliding scale with the length on the measuring arm tighten the nut and cut.

You really need to see this done for it to make sense! Perhaps Clive or Karl will show you next time you are at their place.

[strokebloke]

Thank you.
I'm sure either of them will show me.
I taught Karl at the local technical college when he first started out as an apprentice joiner, so he owes me one or two
Clive (his father?) has been immensely helpful, since I first went there about 3 weeks ago.

[Gesso&Bole]

Hi Jack

I have a new video training course that covers the basics of professional picture framing, including topics like measuring, hinging artwork, and using a Morso and Underpinner. This course is written, and delivered by Mary Evans GCF Adv and involves about an hour and a half worth of videos split into 10 sections with written notes. It is designed as a stage one training course for someone just starting out in this business. It is computer based, and streams directly from my website.

The reason I mention this, is that it is a brand new product, and I am looking for a couple of "complete novices" to do some 'beta testing' and to give me some feedback. I have had a number of industry experts give constructive feedback, but obviously they are watching a training course about a topic they are already familiar with! It would be very useful to understand if the course explains things clearly to someone who doesn't already know, and if the technical aspects all work smoothly.

If you would be prepared to give me some constructive feedback, then I would be delighted to arrange for you to have access to the training FOC as a tester. What do you think - it could help you with some basic training, and me to test our new product? If that appeals to you, perhaps you would drop me a PM?

[strokebloke]

Good evening Jim.
May I provide a brief feedback on my experience of watching your presentations

The videos contain some matters which I knew about.
They also contain some matters which I thought I knew about, and now understand that I didn't.
They also contain a variety of matters of which I had no knowledge at all.
So the experience of watching the videos has been tremendously beneficial to me.
Thank you, sincerely, for the opportunity to do so.

The video presentations themselves are very good; clear and well presented in a clean, 'easy on the eye' workspace, by an accomplished lady obviously used to demonstrating and explaining her skills to others.
The visuality and the sound production is very good.
The presentation is relaxed and informal, whilst nevertheless ensuring that the standards presented are those which are obviously considered to be no less than the norm.

Similarly your accompanying PDF presentations are very good too.
They either fill the gaps nicely, or emphasize the salient point efficiently, whichever way you prefer to view them. And, of course, being static they can be referred to a step at a time, in a manner not possible with the videos. Which makes them an excellent learning provision (particularly in printed format).

So, an overwhelming mark of approval from me, on a splendid learning resource.
I wish you well with it in the years to come.
And once more, thank you for the opportunity to view it.

Kind regards,
Jack

[strokebloke]

Well most Morsos have a long scale and a sliding stop with a smaller scale attached. The small scale increments are double what they should be to account for both ends. There should also be a scale going across near the right of the cutting head. So you mitre one end - slide the moulding over the cross scale and by leaning over you can read the width of the back of the moulding. Say it's 38mm. You then set 38mm on the scale on the sliding stop to align with your desired rebate length and lock the stop. When you cut the other end the rebate should be exactly the length you want.

Propero, when I first read this I must admit that I did not really understand it.
Now that I have seen Mary Evans carry out exactly this procedure in the 'cutting framing' video on Jim's website, I understand exactly what you mean.
I have so far made 19 frames of varying sizes, 30"x20" - 12"x8", by hand for my own photographs ~ and have saved lots of reasonably short lengths of framing section, not knowing whether they would be of any value in the future. So I do have a considerable stock of practice material available, for when the Morso is installed.
One thing that I have learned from watching Jim's excellent videos is that framers tend to refer to the 'frame section width' as the back of the section, effectively disregarding the lip on the front, whereas I was thinking of the 'frame section width' as the front of the section including the lip.
I can see now that to effectively disregard it, reduces the potential for miscalculation enormously.

I have enjoyed Jim's videos immensely, (they are very 'watchable') but more importantly I have learned a great deal in the process.
And I do appreciate that I am concerned only with the most basic aspects of the trade and have an enormous amount to learn, but I am looking forward to it with anticipation rather than trepidation.

From having made a number of frames by hand, I don't think the effects of the strokes are going to inhibit me too much. Certainly no more so than they do with my wood-turning, and I have no problems selling what I produce on the lathe.

[Gesso&Bole]

Thanks for your kind comments Jack.

I'm glad that you enjoyed the video, and that you learnt a lot from it.

We are working to produce hundreds of videos over the coming months, so keep a look out!

[prospero]

Not exactly surprised the penny didn't drop about the scales Jack. It's one of those things that is simple but hard to explain in words. I've known folks who have cheerfully used a Morso for years and never realised.

The nomenclature of framing can also be somewhat ambiguous. Individual people tend to develop their own jargon.

It's logical to call the opposite side to the front the back. But people call the outside face of the moulding the back as well.

The extreme inner edge is generally called the sight-edge. Being the bit that limits what you can see. Sometimes it is desirable to cut frames to this reference point. E.G. Did some little oils last week. The width of the rebate was quite generous - maybe 12mm. If I had cut the frames to the rebate size then the 6"x4" oils would have lost too much area under the rebate. You would see only 3"x5". In this case I deducted 4mm from the overall size of the painting and cut the frames to this size using the full width of the moulding as ref. I used little cork pads to fill the gap and hold the painting gently in place.

It will all become clear as you go along.......

[strokebloke]

It will all become clear as you go along......

I'm sure that you're right ~ although even having accepted that there is considerably more to framing than putting artwork into a wooden frame, I am only now beginning to appreciate the large variety of skills and the volume of knowledge necessary to operate at the highest levels of the trade.
At some point in the future, when I feel confident about 'having my feet under the table' I will see if I can spend a day, or possibly two, with a professional framer ~ to work alongside/assist, and learn from observation. Which is the way I personally learn best.
That, for me is the real value of Jims videos.
You are in the workroom with Mary Evans - you can see what she's doing; and she is explaining why, and providing all manner of useful tips at the same time. Some obvious when mentioned - some anecdotal and not so obvious, but when the 'penny drops', they make you chuckle or wonder why you didn't think of it yourself. And very often those are the little things that I remember [such as you slicing your finger-nail on the Morso blade (it didn't make me chuckle, but I will remember it)]

I suspect it may sound as if I'm constantly expressing my thanks, but I really do appreciate all of the help and advice I've received from everyone. So, thank you, once more.

[David McCormack]

I had two full days training with Mary a couple of years ago, she is a very good teacher.

[Mary Evans]

My thanks to Jack and David for their kind comments. It's very encouraging to have good feedback.
We plan to film some more video after Easter and have it available either as a complete "course" or in individual sections so that framers can "cherry pick" the parts that interest them. Watch this space!
Mary

[Nearlygotitright]

Just to add a few words to Jack's post about Jim's video. I've been framing in a very small way for a little over a year. Being self taught I've picked up a few bad habits and have serious gaps in my knowledge. I found Jim's video a great introduction to first principles - clearly set out in a logical order, well presented and high quality video. I have been able to correct a number of faults and acquire some good ideas. I even have a gutter on my work bench, (you'll have to see the video to get that one). I look forward to what follows.