Hobbyist advice

[Ninhydrin]

I am now starting to look at materials to make my first frame, I am looking on lionpic and mouldings in particular, am I reading this right?
Example L1632 Skane Wenge is £1.45 per metre but then it says approx metres per box 282, can you actually just buy 1 metre if you want or do you have to buy a box?

My 2nd question is would this type of frame be a good choice to do my first frame? I will be using a Logan Mitre Pro, Mitre Trimmer and a Logan pro joiner. I was just wanting to try something simple and knowing my luck for some reason i will choose something wrong for whatever reason

[David McCormack]

You can't buy just 1m but you also don't have to buy a box.

Moulding lengths are usually about 3m so if you order 4m you will get two lengths which will equal 6m and you will be charged for 6m. If you order a wrap of that particular moulding it says they come in 4 lengths per wrap which will be 12m. A wrap of mouldings usually means the same batch so you’ll get a better colour match. Don’t forget with Lion they have a minimum moulding order of £50 but you can mix your order.

As for best mouldings to start with I would say pick flat profiles and easy to cut woods like pine and obeche. L1632 is made from ayous which is similar to obeche I think. With the hand tools you are going to use stay clear of woods like oak and ash until you become more confident. But even oak and ash can be tricksy to underpin with a foot operated underpinner never mind the hand Logan. Best to think about cross nailing with a hammer and filling the nail holes in oak and ash, which is no problem with bare wood as you're putting your own finish on.

[prospero]

Some mouldings are sold in box quantities and the price reflects this. If you can use 282 metres, that's great. Most framers wouldn't.
Mouldings are generally sold in packs, which could be 20ft, 32ft, 40ft....... Most suppliers will supply a minimum qty of 1 pack. And they don't like to split them. (Well they didn't used to, but times are hard ) So typically a framer might order 40ft. He might get 40ft. But lengths vary from around 7-10ft. Suppliers will normally send the nearest they can over the quantity requested. So you might get 45ft. There's a slightly different etiquette compared to buying retail. e.g. Suppliers send stuff out as they receive it from the factory. They don't inspect every inch. Easier all round this way as it's cheaper to credit you for bad stuff than check it all before despatch. Sometimes you can't tell it's bad stuff until you come to use it. Having said that, don't start complaining about every single ding and twist. A certain amount of 'corkage' is expected and should be allowed for in your pricing structure. It's only when you get a lot of carp in a batch that you should complain. Normally there is no quibbles about this and they probably won't even want it back.

Not familiar with the Lion moulding you mention. Although I doubt it is solid Wenge at that price. That is one wood to definitely avoid. It's hard as nails. There are more than a few mouldings that give even old hands a headache. Then there are a few magic ones that cut well, join well, look good and aren't expensive. I'm sure if you tell what you are looking for you will get a few suggestions. In any case, best to buy a couple of sticks of a given moulding to road test before buying a shedload.

[Ninhydrin]

Wow great detailed responses
Well for someone who is just wanting to make a few frames for my photography its not gonna be cheap to start with is it?!
I am also expecting to run into problems like all my hobbies and more than likely ruin alot of moulding, im good like that
I wonder if there is a shop or warehouse of somesort nearer Newcastle I could go to and look at mouldings, probably a good idea.

[Jonny2morsos]

You came back before I could post my respose which is below

Would it not make more sense to go along and visit a local wholesaler where you can pick up other things you are going to need as well most especially glass as you will not be able to get that from Lion.

I think Radius Mouldings in Darlington will be your closest http://www.radiusmouldings.co.uk/ They might even stock Lion products (my local wholesaler does) which would save you delivery charges.

Once you get a feel for things then you can ask them to include you on their delivery round or use Lion.

[Ninhydrin]

Cheers Jonny although its an hour and a half drive it may be worth a look just to see what I actually need as im going into this kind of blind really, too much to learn all at once for me I think

[GeoSpectrum]

There are a number of suppliers who will send out free samples. I dont think Lion do but you can buy samples for very little, 50p I think.

The particular moulding you are refering to is made of a wood called Ayous (also know as obeche) with a stained and lacquerd finish.

[Ricky]

Hi Ninhydrin
If your coming down to see Radius Mouldings,they're my main suppliers, so your welcome to pop in to see me for a chat & some advice.
I'm in Barnard Castle you can check my details on the web site

[Ninhydrin]

Ah cheers Ricky I might just do that, what a great bunch of people we have on this site

[Gus]

Well for someone who is just wanting to make a few frames for my photography its not gonna be cheap to start with is it?!

There is always trhe 'chop' service that most suppliers offer. It would save you wasting moulding and some equipment expense, if you only wanted to make a few frames.

Chop is more expensive per metre, but may work out cheaper in the long run.

[Ninhydrin]

Is minerva polymer mouldings as advertised in the lions catalogue easy to work with from a beginners point of view?

[Jonny2morsos]

Some of these mouldings are fairly dense and require a bit of effort to drive in the wedges. Not sure how you would get on with your Logan Pro Joiner.

Lion will supply you samples so why not order a few and try them out. I would avoid the deep mouldings though.

[AllFramed]

Having had a Logan Pro Joiner many years ago, I would advise against using the polymer mouldings as per J2M's suggestion. It really works best with the softest of woods.

The first bit of "Pro" kit I purchased was a second hand Cassese underpinner as that was the job that was most difficult and fiddly to get good consistent results. Made a big difference in terms of time and quality.

[Ninhydrin]

What sort of mouldings did you get good results from the logan? or is an upgrade a priority for the hobbyist?

[AllFramed]

Hello. As David said above, anything based on pine or obeche was easy to join as the wood is fairly soft.

I did a weekend course with DIY Framing (very good it was too) when I started out, which then was just to frame a few of my own photos. On the course we used the Logan Studio joiner which was easy to use and if I were starting as a hobby again, I would buy instead of the Pro Joiner. If you look on the DIY Framing web site (http://www.diyframing.com/articles_view ... ticleID=91), it says under limitations that the Pro is not easy to operate with oak and ash. To be honest I didn't find it easy to operate with anything

As for the upgrade to "pro" equipment, it certainly saves a lot of time and improves consistency and therefore your own confidence. However, you can still turn out very acceptable frames with hobby eqipment, it just takes a lot more time and fiddling around. Thats ok if it is just a hobby but not much good if you want to sell your expertise. The guy who took our DIY Framing course said to buy the most expensive kit you can afford to save buying it twice (which I have now done for all mine).

[Ninhydrin]

So the studio joiner works better than the pro joiner even though its half the price?

[AllFramed]

That's the way I found it.