Decorative Lines

[strokebloke]

I have a job to do, upon which the customer requires twin decorative lines on the window mount.
I don't envisage that the lining will be a problem.
But I have no knowledge of the sort of pens required.
I have a number of rotring pens of various sizes. Would say a 0.5 be acceptable to draw ink lines?
Also can anyone advise where I might purchase inks of different colours from? (I have a lot of black)

thanks,
Jack

[David McCormack]

Hi Jack,

Have a look at pages 56 & 57 of the Lion Cat (No 48) or this link http://www.lionpic.co.uk/hardware-suppl ... ation.aspx

Not done any myself, except on a course, but most folk use a ruling pen.

Good luck and only attempt mount decoration when fully sober

1948605278_b9ca8256fc_o.jpg

[strokebloke]

Thank you David - for the info/link. I'll follow that up.
And for the photo too.

When I first started in a drawing office we used 2-6H pencils & ruling pens (many years ago)
Rotring pens came on the market & the ruling pens went out of the window.
I'd probably 'blob' all over the mount with one now. I may still have some, somewhere.

[bookmark]

Hi, I am sure there are more able persons than me to answear your question, but I will start the ball rolling. A ruling pen is a must? ecorbra is the one from Lion ( very good) watercolour paints? a mountboard that will take a line without bleeding . Choice of mountboard ? it is a very good skill to learn, maybe a nieche market

[GeoSpectrum]

How often do you get asked for a lined mount? I dont, but then I dont offer.

[prospero]

You could probably do the job with a Rotring pen, but make sure the inks (if coloured) are lightfast.

Watercolour paint is a much better choice for lining. But then you have to use the good ol' ruling pen. But you can mix what ever colour and also add white to make it more opaque. Mix it to the right consistency too.

However you do it, a good straightedge is a must.

Ruling Tip of the Day. If you get a lamp of some sort (anglepoise fav) you can position it near where you are ruling so that it casts a faint shadow on the board from the straightedge. This is very handy for getting lines dead parallel if you are doing them close together. Rule the first one, then when you go round again for the second one you can eyeball the shadow against the first line.

[Jonny2morsos]

Look at p56/7 in the Lion catalogue.

The Everest range are useful especially the pastel powders for filling in panels between the lines.

Watercolour paints will enable you to adjust colours to suit the image.

Don't underprice this if you decide to offer it as a service. A 20 x 16 washlined mount would typically be in the region of £40 and I have seen them up to £85! on conservation board with a same quality undermount. Personally I would stick to smooth finish board.

We are doing a few of these at the moment because we have samples on show and offer them.

[strokebloke]

..... but then I dont offer.

I didn't offer Alan. The customer had very clear ideas about what he required. No question
Which is fine. I had no problem with that.
He want the line work to reflect the present mount which was done in 1972 (J. Platt & Sons of Curzon Street, Derby)

Peter, I've bought some stuff from Lion, as per David's suggestion.
I have several ruling pens (from my work days)
So practice over the weekend, is the order of battle, I think

I have a good ruling pen straightedge.
I also have some watercolour paints -------- the colour doesn't matter at this stage
Thanks for the Tip of the Day ~ that's splendid. I can see the logic of it - I'll try it out.
There's an anglepoise lamp on the edge of my workbench

The mount board the customer has specified is, Arqadia solid core conservation board, in cream.
Will that be a suitable board to draw lines upon? I would imagine so. Any advice will be very welcome.

Thanks all
Jack

[strokebloke]

Thank you John.
This job doesn't matter from a price point of view.
It's a learning process and the price that the client has been given, and accepted, covers the materials and a reasonable return for me.
If I take three times longer to do it than say you would, it doesn't really matter.
At this stage so long as I cover my material cost, and the client is pleased with the work that I produce, I'll be very happy.
(Fortunately, the Arqadia cream conservation board is smooth - but I'll have to practice on some textured board too)

I do, however, take your point about charging appropriately in the future.
I have a pricing programme on a 30 day trial at the moment and am learning to use it.
I have no intention of not being profitable in six months time.

I have some necessary materials here to practice on, over the weekend.
Lion are delivering what I've ordered from P56/7 & other bits & pieces, on Tuesday
And the materials for the job arrive from Leamington, on Thursday.
So by that time I should be able to confidently tackle the job and produce a professional result.

thanks for your support
Jack

[Jonny2morsos]

Sorry Jack forgot to mention these are useful:

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/product-search ... earch=1425

Framers Equipment in Northampton also list them if it is too late to add to your Lion order.

If you Google "Washline Mounts" you will find plenty of examples. Trick is to keep the colouring subtle.

[strokebloke]

Thanks John. I've got one.
I bought quite a lot of stuff from Jack Dell, in Morden, who has retired.
Part of a 'job lot' of stuff from Jack, was one of these gadgets.
I didn't really understand what it was until I read the Lion catalogue

Lots of practice today.
I'm feeling comfortable with what I'm producing.
It's better than what was produced on the original. And I've been to visit my friend across the road, who has a number of line drawings mounted and decorated with lines and wash between. And I'd say I'm comparable. [so did he]
I haven't mucked one up yet ~ I guess that will happen on the genuine conservation board next week.

I've done lines with Rotring pens with ink. And with two of my ruling pens, with watercolours. OK so far !!
Peter's tip about the anglepoise is very good, even with the points from Longridge, it provides parallel accuracy.

"Trick is to keep the colouring subtle."
I'll try to remember that one. Thanks

[Roboframer]

I lerve washlines!

big washline 0015.jpg

Some more tips (mostly assuming paint, brushes and a ruling pen; not felt tips or any other sort of pen ... or those powders you can get).

Want to do a splattered/stippled panel? Do on inlay ... cut the panel out and set about it with a sponge or a toothbrush, or just throw paint at it from a great distance - then stick it back in from whence it came.

Want to do a panel right up to the bevel (as per photo) but are worried about getting colour on the bevel itself, or the colour bleeding under the surface paper? Cut the aperture an inch or so smaller than you need, carry on, not worrying about all that, let it dry and then cut through it to the aperture you require.

Problems with blobbing at the start and/or end of a line (esp with metallic paint/ink)? Stick a post-it note each end and start and finish the line on them. Do all the lines one side, (if there are more than one) then do the opposite side the same, allow them to dry and then do the other two sides.

Want a really really really (really) good gold (or other metallic) line? Don't use paint/ink - use glue and then apply foil or real leaf even. I prefer acrylic gloss medium because it can be lightly burnished, but wundasize, gum amoniac or even builders PVA are all good - some experimentation is required for dilution/flow whilst retaining adhesion and that can be done with dense watercolour which will kill two birds ... you can see it better and you can choose a base colour that suits .... er .... that's 3 birds!

Light colour on a dark board? Acrylic paint.

Your line is thinner in the centre than it is at each end? Draw it twice.

Wide line? Well, if it's with a loaded ruling pen, you can't defy gravity, build the lines up, waiting for each to dry.

Got a CMC? Emboss all the lines, but very very very lightly, and then mark the corners with a hard pencil as you otherwise would .... but in total confidence that they are BANG on! Also add pencil lines to the edges of any wash panel as you normally would. But with practice, and if you have vv good eyesight, you could just use the lightly embossed lines, which would be well impressive to an experienced eye (like, "where's the pencil/pin dots/lines ... I can't see any.... HTF did he do that"?)

Pin holes can cause blobs and/or bleeding underneath them.

When doing long washlines, or even not so long ones, make like a CMC - move your arm; not your hand/wrist and support as much of your forearm as poss.

[strokebloke]

Well, there's a wealth of info and experience in there John.
Thank you so much.

I've been reading Pete Bingham's books The Picture Framing Course & Picture Framing .. A practical guide .......
Books I bought from Amazon when I first started, for less than £2 each S/H ~ but these two had been very well looked after and not much used, I suspect.
I'm beginning to realize that there are few boundaries as to what constitutes decoration for a mount.
There is so much opportunity to experiment, even if you don't use what you experiment with.

I like your tip with the post it notes
I have the advantage, because of my struct eng background, of having lots of drawing office experience, so drawing lines with pens is an activity I am very familiar with. It's the 'arty' side of it that I'm lacking. ... the washlines ~ mixing watercolour paints ~ experience with a brush etc. I need to practice lots.

Fortunately, the job coming up which has been specified with a decorative mount, requires only two fairly wide (2mm) parallel lines in pastel shades. But the customer did say that he would 'leave it up to me'.
The materials for the job are not being delivered until Thusday, so I have lots of time to practice.

I don't have a CMC. I will probably never generate the amount of work to make one necessary

Q1. When using a ruling pen to produce straight lines using watercolours, is what goes into the pen paint, or ink?
Q2. If ink, what is the difference between watercolour paint & the ink?
Q3. Do you, or anyone, have any idea where I may be able to purchase artists templates for decorative linework at the junctions of corners? I presume they are available from somewhere, as Pete Bingham talks about such templates in one of his books.
I'll try Google first, but if any one can .........

Once more, thank you for your advice and experience. Very much appreciated.
Jack

[prospero]

Ruling lines 2mm wide is a bit of a challenge. You can't really open up the nib that wide and still get the paint/ink to cling on. And if you did, it would only go about a couple of inches. The way I do it is to rule a thin line, then rule one alongside to blend in. But you have to rule the second one while the first one is still wet. Not easy, but can be done. To build up to 2mm you would have to do three or even four.

As an alternative, you could use stick-on tapes. Lion do 2mm wide ones, but only gold/silver. There is a further selection that includes (not many) pastely shades. But these are 25mm wide, so it involves slicing it into 2mm strips. Not easy. (is anything?) There used to be a tool with multple blades for this very purpose. Don't know if it is still gettable.

Or.... Get some paper the right colour (lots of shades in drawing paper) and slice that. But then you are stuck with no sticky back. But fret not - this is the only application where the old spray glue has any use. It's a faff, but it does work and it does stay stuck down if you do it right.


Still glad you took up framing?

[Roboframer]

I use watercolour, artist quality, both in pans and tubes, not sure what differences there are between ink and watercolour bar of course ink comes ready-mixed so can only be made lighter by diluting; mixing colours would be difficult and it probably dries quicker, which could be good or bad, depending.

I did google though http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 535AApc1Su

Building up a thick line with a few thin ones isn't easy if you don't allow each line to dry first ... or maybe almost dry - if too wet and the nib touches it, its contents will join forces in a big blob! Disadvantage of adding to a dry line is that you'll get a hard edge between each line; it won't blend in.

This is a line made from 2 different colours, but you can see what I mean, each line has its own hard edges. (The battery is there because the camera wouldn't focus on the bit I wanted)

big washline 005.JPG

[strokebloke]

Thanks Peter. He left it to me, so if it's too difficult, I'll do something else.

Still glad you took up framing?

Yep. And particularly so because I have a number of generous people who give me good advice.
Hopefully, I will be able to pay back, to some extent, as the years go by.
But I do sincerely appreciate the help I receive from you all.

[strokebloke]

Thanks John.
I certainly won't make life unnecessarily difficult for myself, with the first 'line' job.
I'm clinging like mad to his directive that "he would leave it to me". ...... That's my lifeline at the moment
I assumed in my ignorance that a thick line would be so much easier to produce, than a thin one... I've much to learn !!

I understand about the battery & the focus.
I have a Nikon D300 & on occasions it has a life of its own. I trick it by focusing on something tangible at the same distance away, and AEL focus-lock it. Then swing back onto the subject and take the shot. Works 99% of the time

[strokebloke]

I do enjoy the challenge Peter.
I like learning, so long as the subject is within my capabilities.
I reckon I can do this 'framing thing' and by fairly good at it, given time and practice.
I do like the fact that it's not just fixing four bits of wood together and cutting a hole for a window in a piece of card.
Which, i admit , is what I thought framing was all about before I started doing it.
I can remember saying to someone "it's not rocket-science, is it?"
And it's not. But there's a hell of a lot to it that I had no concept of at all, at the time.
You guys amaze me just with the amount of knowledge and information about material that you seem to hold in your head.
There's no dark art to it, but there is infinitely more skill, knowledge and adaptability required than simply the ability to fix four pieces of timber together with nice mitres.

So yes, I am genuinely glad that I've got into framing. I love it
In the same way that I love wood-turning and photography.