Conservation MDF/ Hardboard?

[iamzero]

Hoping someone could tell me what to use for an alternative to MDF or hardboard as a protective backing board for frames. Layers of con clear glass, conservation mountboard, art bak or lions conservation backing board are possibly let down by adding shiney MDF to the rear. I'm not sure it cold make that much difference but would like to hear from someone now I have a Peter Blake to frame.

Thanks.

[Roboframer]

I use foam board or correx.

[prospero]

This is a thorny subject.

MDF definitely provides better physical protection than the popular alternatives. You could argue the advantage of an (allegedly) more conservational backing is negated by it's inherent weakness. To my mind, if you can jab a sharp object though it or even dent it with your finger, it's not providing sufficient rearguard protection. It's amazing what people do to pictures and if they do it to a valuable piece then all the conservation stuff you have packed in will count for nothing.
To counteract the possible nasty chemicals in MDF and to guard against moisture incursion (It is quite hygroscopic), I put in a barrier sheet of thin polypropylene. The stuff Lion sell for wrapping. It's quick to do - just plonk the back on top and cut round. IMHO this is a better option all round than using cardboard-based backs or foamcore.
I had an frame back that I had done which was drenched by a burst pipe. The back had gone very mouldy and so had parts of the frame. But the artwork survived untouched.

I rest my case.

[iamzero]

I can't imagine the MDF being so much of a threat to the artwork from back there and the benefits if using it surely outweigh the supposed threat? But when you have a £3k piece of paper then you start to question your usual thinking.

[Roboframer]

I've been using what I use for years and they've being using the same across the pond for ever. A 5mm foam board back with a 4 ply undermount isn't that easy to pierce, I just stuck that combination to my dart board and threw darts at it - OK, they went through, but pushing a dart through to initially pin it to the dartboard took a bit of effort.

A double 4mm correx backing (2 sheets bonded so that the flutes cross) is very strong, tough, rigid and light. I think many of us in the UK don't feel right if something large is also quite light.

For something of that value (or in many framers's cases, for anything at all) why add something to the package that would/could cause damage without some sort of barrier - the likes of which have never been and never will be, suggested by a conservator!

[iamzero]

Adding 8mm of Correx to a fairly shallow rebate could prove tricky in some cases and how does the gummed tape stick to it when sealing up the frame? I have an order to make from Arqadia and was looking at the aqua conservation but sounds like hardboard just wrapped in acid free paper, I wonder if that would work?

Can anyone say with any certainty that once I've attached the Blake to the Lion conservation backing board that the fumes from the shiney MDF backing are really likely to cause a problem?

[Roboframer]

Have you got a links for the Arqadia aqua conservation board and the lion conservation backing?

As for two sheets of 4mm correx, that would be for a pretty large thing where, ideally, the rebate would be up to it, but there's 3mm too, so 6mm in total, which is 1mm more than my default and I manage OK.

You can buy cross-braced backings from the likes of PEL, it's not cheap! http://www.preservationequipment.com/St ... ated-Board As for gummed tape, no it wouldn't stick to it, just use s/adhesive - lineco foil tape if you want. Gummed tape doesn't stick to these artbak type aqua boards either, not unless you sand the water resistant coating away.

[Not your average framer]

There are plenty of scientifically credible published items fron many different sources citing the many reasons why MDF is not an ideal material for framing valuable works of art. MDF contains fomaldehyde, which is proven to be hazardous to artworks, it also contains untreated wood pulp which contains all the original acids and lignin from the wood and also contains the perfect food source for mould and fungal organisms to thrive.

If you must use MDF when framing an artwork of such high value, then I would suggest that to fail to fully mitigate the potential for damage to the customers artwork from these known risks, amounts to failure of your duty to protect the customers valuable property. If he took you to court as a result of damage resulting from your lack of appropriate care for this valuable work of art, you would have no legal defence whatsoever. In law your customer has a right to expect you to be a competent picture framer, because you are promoting yourself as exactly that.

I would further suggest that the most obvious way of mitigating these risks is not to use MDF as a backing board for this customers artwork. To provide an adequately durable backing board, may I suggest that you contact Brittannia Mounts for a sample of CombCor, which is 5mm thick and very strong and very tough indeed. In my workshop, I stock both the standard and conservation versions of the Solid Kraft backing boards (which and solid, not corrogated boards), CombCor Mk3, plus 3mm and 5mm foambord. I keep such a range of backing boards, so that I can provide the most suitable backing boards for every possible framing job I am likely to need to do.

[iamzero]

This is this is the link to the Lion backing board I hinge mount to

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/product/Conser ... 924,0.aspx

And this being the Arqadia link
http://www.arqadia.co.uk/productdetails ... =999120000

Thank for the help.

[Roboframer]

The lion board is designed to be a frame backing, not a mounting board.

Your undermount should be the same quality as your aperture mount and if it's conservation then it should be pure alpha cellulose, acid and lignin free, sort of stuff; not "purified white wood fibre".

Use a good quality under mount and that board should be fine as a backing board as long as the thickness is up to the size.

The Arqadia board has no hardboard or MDF content and is also a frame backing board, it should not be next to the artwork in a conservation job - they state it is standard quality.

[iamzero]

Thanks for the replies Roboframer. I used to frame all my stuff with a plain white untextured conservation mountboard for undermount until I spoke to a guy in Lion one day and switched to the stuff I posted a link to. He said it was more than good enough to use as an undermount so I went with it and really liked it but if you think it's not suitable then maybe I need a rethink, what would you recommend and what thickness? I have a stack of artbak conservation I use for non important stuff and never buy any mountboard that isn't conservation either.

So maybe I've had the correct frame backing all along and I've simply been using it as an undermount?

[Roboframer]

Reckon so!

Whatever the guy from Lion said, they don't suggest in B&W that it is suitable for conservation work against the artwork. These FATG mountboard standards were made, in part, to keep suppliers sweet and many suppliers band the word 'conservation' around within those standards to such an extent that it becomes confusing, take the Arqadia board you posted a link to for example, the description is 'conservation board' but click 'additional info' and they clearly state the whole board is actually standard quality - it all sucks IMHO.

As for what I'd use, on "a £3k piece of paper"? Well, I use Nielsen-Bainbridge Alphamat artcare as default, mount and undermount and the foam board I use for backing is also artcare - that's the stuff with zeolites and micro chambers that actively protects by trapping airborne pollutants and turning them in to hamless salts. Oh Yeah!

I'd be happy with that for this but would be happier still with alpha RAG artcare - i.e. cotton board, complete with the soak-it-up-and-spit-it-out technology. The aperture mount would be a double mount with one or even both 8 ply and the under mount would be the same stuff and definitely 8 ply. Then it would be either of the things I mentioned in my first reply to back the frame.

Failing artcare, then just cotton board, same thicknesses per above front & back. There's plenty of very good non-cotton conservation boards about, but if you want to be safe, use cotton.

As for fixing the thing in place, I wouldn't be using hinges, I'd be using mounting strips or a platform mount.

[iamzero]

Thanks for the the heads up on the artcare boards, just had a look and it looks like Wessex sell that stuff so I need to get on the phone to them for a swatch board. Arqadia sell Rat mat cotton boards that I have a sample book for but I'm guessing not the same quality? I've also noticed that the cotton stuff is not textured like the Daler polar white Ingres I quite like but I suppos it's possible I could use a cotton board for the appature mount that comes into contact with the artwork and then use the Ingres over that?

[Roboframer]

The Arqadia cotton board is fine, zeolites and micro chambers in artcare boards can be a bonus, compare prices. You'll find the artcare boards come in more colours though, probably more thicknesses too.

Having a double mount with only the bottom mount cotton is fine; I think the under mount is as important if not more important, after all, it's in contact with the whole back of the paper, not just extremities.

[Not your average framer]

An undermount should be considered as essential (not optional) when framing anything of significant value.

[Roboframer]

I'm on about the quality/thickness of one, not whether one should be used or not.

[iamzero]

Quite surprised at the lack of choice with sizes of jumbo boards, both cotton and conservation. Very annoying when you have a print that's 870mm x 820mm to frame.

[iamzero]

Ok, cotton rag now bought. Lets the games commence. I'll post the results when complete.