securing glass

[Gus]

Just a quickie....

I have to make a frame with a front opening - like a cabinet door. How would I secure the glass (3mm float). Am using R&H sw9527 Oak moulding, not much of a rebate for a spacer. I'm thinking to drill/pin (carefully) and a bead of silicone? Only used silicone in the bathroom before, is it the same stuff?

Many thanks
Gus.

[Glimpse]

I'd run a very thin bead of silicone around the underside of the rebate and push the glass onto it. Then I'd silicone a fillet onto the other side of the glass to hide the messy bit and neaten it all up. Unless it's very big, it shouldn't need pinning as well - glaziers use silicone to hold most windows in nowadays.
Dow Cornings sealants are very good and don't yellow over time. But any clear silicone should be fine...

[easypopsgcf]

Silicon will be fine, just don't use much and keep it away from the front. Also I'd glue in a piece of wood to help secure it in, no pins/points. 6mm square profile is usually ok for this, possibly available in oak???

Edit: beaten to it but replying anyway

[Glimpse]

There are 2 schools of thought when it comes to sticking glass with silicone, some glaziers use a healthy dollop so it squeezes out, and then they trim it with a sharp blade.
Gives a very neat look, but you need time for the silicone to cure thoroughly, and if it's a natural oak frame, it might leave a slightly oily mark if it gets on the visible edge.
Might be safer to use it quite sparingly but run a bead around the hidden edge of the glass too.
Also, open a window... Curing silicone is horrible on your eyes in an enclosed space!

[prospero]

I would avoid the silicone. It's not a window and it doesn't have to be waterproof. Besides that silicone is very messy.
The ideal thing is quadrant moulding (from a DIY shed). It comes in very small sizes - small enough to fit under a frame rebate. paint/stain it to blend with the frame. With a bit of dexterity you can drill pilot holes and use tiny pins to hold it. Or an air-powered nailer with headless pins. (you aim needs to be good in the latter case)
I wouldn't use any form of glue. To stop the glass sliding about inside, a blob or two of bluetak between the glass edge and frame will do the job.

[Not your average framer]

I'm with Prospero on this one! Any surplus silicone is very hard to remove all traces from the wood and a small quadrant moulding will not only look much more professional, but will be so much quicker and easier to do.

I also fully agree with prospero about the headless pinner. I've only had a headless pinner myself for about three months and already I wonder how I used to manage without it. The pins are so small that they are almost invisible and the nose of the pinner is quite small, so it is easy to get into tight spaces and also the small nose makes it easy to be accurate in placing the pins where you want them.

I bought my headless pinner from Axminster Power Tools, because it was only about £40 and it was about time I got one, but there are many other suppliers offering good deals elsewhere. If you've got a compressor, but not got a headless pinner yet, this job could be the excuse to buy one!

[Gus]

Many thanks to you for your replies. The frame is 1400 x 500mm so I would feel safer having a physical fix rather than just silicone. I will have a look for some quadrant. Also for the tip about blu tac!

I don't have air tools so the headless pinner is out unfortunately.

Excellent suggestions thank you.

[Roboframer]

I've never made a door that swings out but I've done many slipover frames like this one http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 39&p=76257 where a window mount is used to conceal the box screwed to the wall and the glass is fixed in the normal way, points and sealing tape. Same could be done with a door if a window mount is Ok with your design.

[benjiman grapes]

Buy Clear Silicone.

The silicone method is probably the road we'd go down. If rebate was larger we tend to use the tiny hard pins you can get.

[Graysalchemy]

I have made literally 10's of thousands of hinged cases over the years. Firstly i always used acrylic (well styrene it was for pubs) and I used glaziers points in the fletcher framers point gun. They are shorter and hide behind the rebate so as you don't see them. You can use them with glass but you have to be careful.

As above silicon is messy even clear once it goes where it's not wanted and you smudge it it is a bugger to get off.

[A3DFramer]

Silicone can be used to secure glass into frames both neatly and without mess by using masking tape. The tape needs to be placed in such a way that it can be stripped out with the wet/uncured silicone on it, without risk of falling back on the glass.

To allow the silicone to cure on the tape will leave a cleaning job almost as messy as a smeared silicone curing on the glass, so in this instance, the silicone must not be allowed to cure or skin.

On the inside place the tape to the edge of the glass, on the outside to the line of the the moulding. Lay the tape in sequence around the 4 sides so the overlaps will be lifted by the tape as they are stripped out.

Run a bead of silicone into the rebate of the moulding, just sufficient to create the joint with minimal excess. Place the masked glass into the frame and press firmly into the sealant, then scrape out the excess onto the masking tape, this can be safely removed when the tape is stripped out.

There are quite a few very useful joints that silicone can be used for, having seen a number of trainees learn them, it would seem to be a skill that develops.

[Glimpse]

A lolly stick is the perfect tool to get a nice corner bead. Make sure you have a good stack of cut-up newspaper squares and it needn't be messy.