Hand-Finishing Possibilities

[prospero]

I hope those glyphs don't say anything too rude Mark.

Ooops, it wasn't Mark NYAF bits. Sorry framemaker.

(The Edit option is a bit urgent tonite. )

[Not your average framer]

Hi Prospero,

I was also looking at the frame on the wall above your framed papyrus. Are the corner decoration something you have done? Looks interesting!

[Moglet]

Hah! So I wasn't the only one snooping round the pic!!

[Not your average framer]

Hah! So I wasn't the only one snooping round the pic!!

I'm always snooping, especially in certain galleries where I admire the framing. I can't necessarily remember the art, but the frame is another matter. I try to remember interesting colour combinations or moulding profiles which are something special, so I can write them down after leaving.

A lot of my best ideas are copying or adapting something I've seen else where. I think we should all do it at every opportunity and learn something new as often as possible! The trouble is most customers don't examine things like we do and even our casual glances at something in a gallery will often convince the staff that we know more than most.

In one particular gallery, I spent a long time looking at a particular frame. It was one of the most stunningly classy bits of hand-finishing I've ever seen and the sales assistant was concerned to ask if there was anything wrong with the picture. My reply of "No it's fine" probably wasn't sufficiently informative for the poor girl's curiosity either.

[Moglet]

Perhaps you should have said, "Picture? ... Good grief!!!"

[Roboframer]

I'm always snooping .......... I try to remember interesting colour combinations or moulding profiles which are something special, so I can write them down after leaving.

Hi Mark,

You're probably less of a technophobe than I - but even I could get around that one. My mobile has a record facility and I could make it even less conspicuous with bluetooth.

Just lift the collar of your mac - (you have a mac, right?) after a quick shufti, press the button and give it ..... "two inch reverse, quarter inch stepped gilded sight edge - ash I think, poss maple, stippled black and red over gold - NYAF out"

Or - take 'a call' and use the camera on your phone - Bond was doing it in the 80's FFS

[prospero]

The picture on the wall behind is quite interesting......

I had spate of trying to make frames with ornate corners. These particular corners are 'Pasta' and came from Lion. They come in pairs, left and right. The moulding was some sp offer stuff, about 40mm wide with a reaaly horrible foiled/sprayed gold finish. I made a simple jig to guide a sawblade so I could take off the ridge a set distance from the mitre, to give a flat area to fix the corners to. The end result is not too bad, but the work involved really makes it unfeasable for general use. Lots of filling/blending needed.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Mark,

You're probably less of a technophobe than I

How right you are! I don't even own a mobile. My wife Vee has one, but I don't even want one.

When I'm not at home or at work, I can't be contacted and that's good. Did you notice on my profile that my pastime is "escaping the rat race"?

[Not your average framer]

Perhaps someone can tell me if this is a realistic thing to try and do. I've been asked to either restore or re-create an existing frame so that a painting can be seen in it's original presentation.

Unfortunately it has a lots of gesso detail over a large scooped area of moulding which is very badly erroded. I am therefore considering machining down an available finished ornate moulding so as to make the portion I require available for stacking together with other mouldings to fully re-create the original.

I suspect that this might not be as easy as it sounds. I wondered if anyone has ever tried this and can advise.
Thanks in anticipation,
Mark.

[prospero]

Any chance of a piccy Mark?

I have done things similar to what you describe. I have had damaged lengths that I have had credit for and have sawn the bad bits of and used the rest. It's suprising what you can come up with. I often get people coming in with odd-shaped frames asking to recreate them. Sometimes it's easy. Sometimes it's not. I wish I had some of the old moulds for making ornaments. The people who have these tend to guard them jealously.

[Ricky]

Just Done this for artist who wanted a slate frame for his work

[Not your average framer]

Any chance of a piccy Mark?

Yes, I'll do one tomorrow. It's pretty far gone!

I wish I had some of the old moulds for making ornaments.

I've got some small ones, but they are far from easy to use. They were made quite a long time ago from "white metal" which is something similar to the lead alloy used for printers type. Unfortunately the metal is quite soft and is easily marked as I have accidentally discovered.

My success rate with producing usable ornaments with these has not been all that good and it takes a lot of time. Unfortunately although I have some small moulds I was never shown the correct way to use them, so I'm probably doing it the wrong way.

[prospero]

I made a mould once of a little leaf ornament. I used to get ready-made 'pasta' leaves from Renaissance Mouldings. (Are they still going?). They were nice to use, just give them a quick blast with a heat-gun and they go floppy and can be PVA'ed to a corner. Only prob was they were about a quid each and there quite a few rejects. Anyhow, I made a mould out of plaster and it was fine. I had a big tub of wood putty, which was basically the same stuff as 'pasta'. But could I get them out of the mould in one piece? Could I f-fairy cakes. Tried all sorts of release agents. I never tried using gesso. Pity ready-made gesso ornaments aren't on the market, but in all honesty it's far easier to get such people as Frinton Gallery to make the entire frame for you in plain gesso.


Tip of the week:

Never chuck old old knackered frames with ornaments. Sooner or later someone will bring an old frame in with a bit dropped off and ask you to restore it. Old frames don't like modern central heating and running patterns tend to shrink and crack. Eventually a pice will come loose and vanish forever up the Hoover pipe. A lot of the old fancy frames have the same patterns and it's easy to pinch a bit off an otherwise unrepairable frame than try casting and blending in a new piece.
I've done this more than few times.



btw. Nice frame Ricky. If you know how to make frames in solid rock, there is a framer on the Grumble who has a customer who apparently is alergic to wood, metal and plastic and looking for rock frames. I kid you not.

(Only in America.... )

[framemaker]

I was recently told by a carvers/gilders/restorers in London that up until recently there used to be two suppliers of loose compo ornament in London, but now I don't think there is anyone in the UK offering this service.

This company in America sell loose ornament, check out the online catalogues for corners, centres, running patterns etc:

http://www.bomardesigns.com/index2.php

I think it is pretty hard (impossible?!) to find collections of original boxwood moulds, most are in the hands of long established framemakers, maybe they occasionally come up for auction.

What you really need is to find someone who will let you make impressions of original moulds with a silicone material like steramould, lab putty or similar and then use these to make your own moulds in resin or plaster

[Not your average framer]

Any chance of a piccy Mark?

Here it is!



For full size image:
http://img226.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _472lo.jpg

It's suprisingly large and appears to be made up from seven or more mouldings stacked together. I'm not much impressed with the workmanship. The choice of mouldings to stack together is both clever and interesting, but the method of filling the joins and finishing the resulting stack of mouldings is somewhat lacking. There's some very interesting profiles in this frame, which I am looking forward to seeing in more detail if the original frame is scrapped and I get to take it apart.

In spite of looking in lots of catalogues, I can't find the main moulding anywhere. Fortunately, I have something suitable in my stock of old mouldings. The top moulding in the rack in the following picture is an old 1970's hand finished italian moulding. I've no idea what it must have cost, it's a fabulous moulding, but too large to cut on the Morso.



For full size image:
http://img244.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... 2_13lo.jpg

[prospero]

Hmmmmmmmm....I see your problem.

I think the way to go is to try and find a moulding with a similar running pattern as the centre ornate part and work from there.
Few years ago this would be simple, but nowadays there isn't very much stuff like this available. If any... Simons still do a few of the old 'mirror' moudings. Up to about 2.5" I think.
The ideal would be to find one with a similar pattern with the same scoop amd ornate sight edge. Failing that, one with a similar running pattern which you could saw off and add a spacer + onrnate sight edge. The outer moulding is also tricky. You would just have to try and find somethng vaguely similar. It looks as though the extreme outside bit originally had an ornate pattern which has dropped orf.
And to complicate things further, the nice coved liner isn't something I could lay my hands on overnight.

I agree with your observation re. the workmanship in these old frames. They only looked good where it showed. From the back they tend to be as rough as a badgers wotsit. I thnk the standard practice was to use the crappest wood knowing that it was all going to be buried under layers of fancy stuff.

[Not your average framer]

The outer moulding is also tricky. You would just have to try and find somethng vaguely similar. It looks as though the extreme outside bit originally had an ornate pattern which has dropped orf.

Hi Peter,

Actually the outer moulding is easier than you think. It is in fact another coved liner, but larger than the one shown in the picture, (about 4 or 5 inches wide), which has been reversed and pinned / glued to the back. Being larger than the main part of the frame it forms an outer step, onto which some sort of decorative detail had presumably been glued in place. Any flat wood section would do the same thing and a suitable decorative strip moulding could easily be obtained from Rose & Hollis, Richard Burbidge, or another suitable supplier.

And to complicate things further, the nice coved liner isn't something I could lay my hands on overnight.

That's true, but I'm thinking about getting something similar machined to order by Norfolk mouldings. I would be great to have something like that to offer my customers.

I agree with your observation re. the workmanship in these old frames. They only looked good where it showed. From the back they tend to be as rough as a badgers wotsit. I thnk the standard practice was to use the crappest wood knowing that it was all going to be buried under layers of fancy stuff.

The wood was alright, but this one was filled with a very gritty pink plaster and very little attempt had been made to blend or smooth the surface of the filler with the surfaces of the mouldings. Not a nice job at all!

[Spit]

Thought I'd bring this one up again, as I was asked to do a bronzed type finish - I had an effect in mind, but considering I only had gold paint the result exceeded my expectations. Hopefully the customer will be pleased too.

bronze2.jpg

Amazing what you can do with a sponge!

[Not your average framer]

That's pure class Steve. Are you gonna do a sample for the display board? If you've got it flaunt it!

[Spit]

I'd like to, but sadly I don't know if I'll still be in business after December. There just isn't enough people who appreciate quality here, they just want it as cheap as possible. Maybe I'll re-open somewhere a bit more affluent (which means moving away frome here!), but it looks like I'll have to go back to IT to reduce the debt.