Name Stickers on the back of frames ?

[Merlin]

[ While I recognise the points made about this, stainless steel wire doesn't look as classy.

It may not look classy, on the back of a picture that the average person does not see.

It also depend on what type of 'picture hooks' the customer is using. Any metal other than the copper and you will get Dissimilar Metals Reaction.. This will accelerate the weakening of the copper wire.

[Not your average framer]

I offer free X-brand picture hooks to all my customers when they collect. These hooks are made from steel and then plated and passivated. The passivating process involves dipping into a preparation which deposites a very hard and clear mineral coating onto the plated surface.

Passivated finishes are applied mainly to seal porous plated finishes, but another helpful advantage is that they illiminate bi-metallic corrosion.

[Nigel Nobody]

While I recognise the points made about this, stainless steel wire doesn't look as classy.

"Looking classy" depends on the individual doing the looking. Many people, me included think brass wire looks old fashioned, cheap and nasty, but I suppose others disgree completely.

If one of our suppliers would care to offer a nice chunky looking stainless steel plastic covered wire with suitable colouring in the plastic covering to look like gold, then I'll switch over to that instead.

WHY? It's not as if the frame is going to be hung with the back facing outwards!
If the elements on the back of a frame are neat, carefully attached, appropriate for the size of the frame and look like they were finished by someone who cares, surely that's all that matters.

How many times or how many minutes in the life of any given frame is the stupendously exotic, matching brass wire, dee rings and makers label going to be viewed by the owner? Does the owner spend one fraction of a second thinking they are so fortunate that they have matching wire, dee rings and labels instead of chrome dee rings, Supersoftstrand plastic coated wire and a multi-coloured label???

IMHO, we can get all tied up and meticulous about finicky detail, that we risk losing sight of more important issues!

[framejunkie]

If the elements on the back of a frame are neat, carefully attached, appropriate for the size of the frame and look like they were finished by someone who cares, surely that's all that matters.

I'm 100% with Ormond on this one - as long as my frames look pukka and professional on the back, then I'm happy that they provide a good advert for my craftsmanship. As to choices of hardware and wire etc, i choose what i think is best for the job, knowing that It'll look fine even if it doesn't colour-coordinate.

That said, I love the fact that my preferred backing board, Meridian acid-free bookbinding board from John Purcell, is exactly the same colour and texture as the wet tape i use to seal the frame, although that's not why i use these 2 products.

[Not your average framer]

I completely understand what others are saying, but custmers come to me because of the way I have chosen to present what I do and anything which sets me apart from the competition in a positive way works to my advantage.

It's something very visual and easily visually compared with the work offered by my competitors. If my work looks better finished, they will draw the conclusions which I intended and I will get their future framing work. I'm based in a well off area, with big houses and people who will willingly pay for something perceived as high class and worth the extra. Think about it, it ain't that hard to see how it works!

I try hard to make my work look different in good ways and this is different. It is considered as traditional and is associated with hand craftmanship and quality. So why doesn't this make sense?

I don't use thin brass wire, so I have a massive safety margin in terms of breaking strain. If brass wire deteriorated sufficiently quickly nobody would use it and it would be excluded from use by the FATG and FACTS standards. So how come they don't specify that we don't use it?

I see frames coming through my door which were done more than fifty years ago, many far in excess of that and the brass wire is still in reasonable condition. It may be dull in appearance, but still perfectly usable. By using adequate and cautiously chosen wire sizes this is a perfectly reasonable type of wire to use in a town a long way from the coastal salty atmosphere.

[Roboframer]

If my work looks better finished,

Post a photo or two Mark then people can ask themselves if it looks better than what they do and if it does they can then ask themselves if theirs is functionally better, worse or the same.

I'm all for backs looking great as long as they perform great - otherwise I'm happy with looking just good/neat and performing great - and I'd actually rather use the cheapest cord I could find and no frame label knowing the customer would use two well placed wall hooks - than the smartest looking wire with matching hardware and more labels on the back than a boy scout leader has on his arm, with the thing hung on one hook.

[Not your average framer]

Here it is John,

The camera flash makes the black tape, the backing and the black background on the label look quite different from one another due to differences in the finished surface of each. In normal direct viewing by eye they all look very much the same, in fact the solid black mountboard behind the normal backing and the back tape are both from the same supplier and are supposed to be exactly the same.

The homes of some of my customers are included in the domesday book and one particular family has lived in the same house since the reign of Elizabeth the first. Many of my customers live in old farm houses, old country houses, old cottages or barn conversions. They bring in old pictures in old frames for me to clean, repair, restore or touch up and they like things to look old and traditional when I've finished.

This includes matching the colour of the original paper and tape covering the back of the frame, adding some discolouration, dirt, water stains, fly specks, etc. to suit and in keeping with the age of the item. They also ask me to match old frames which they already have and all sorts of similar things too! The things I am framing are to be passed down the generations and they don't want them looking too modern.

What it costs is what it costs and I'm the guy who says he can do it. I'm not joking, this is how I get a lot of my best customers and they keep coming back. Any of my competitors doing it? Nope, it's my very own niche in the market and I always stacked up with a backlog of work.

The wire on this frame has a breaking strain equivalent to about forty times the weight of the frame and over time the brass will discolour to a dull dark brown. No doubt over time the breaking strain for the wire will become less, but it won't reduce enough to matter. Thin wire don't look anything special and you don't get those lovely chunky twists and either end.

I'm not the only one around doing this sort of thing, although the all black backing board is not something I've seen else where except from the one you posted on the forunm some time ago. Next time you've got time to kill up in London, have a look in some of those up-market galleries with expensive hand-finished frames and you will see where I got some of my ideas from. It pays to be different and to do things which are noticably different to how you competitors do it!

Putting on the ritz.jpg (30.55 KiB) Viewed 6988 times

[Roboframer]

Very smart indeed - but personally I think 'silver' wire and 'D' rings would look just as good - in fact, if Super softstrand came with a gold coating, it really would look classy to have that on the back of gold frames and the normal stuff on the backs of silver ones.

Until then All my frames hung with wire will have silver super sofstrand - it's more user friendly and won't corrode. As for discolouring I haven't been using it long enough to know if the coating will discolour.

.... people can ask themselves if it looks better than what they do and if it does they can then ask themselves if theirs is functionally better, worse or the same..

It looks far far better than my default - (not that this is your default) but I think a black (or whatever colour) dustcover would look far better - no rebate contours, no tape overlaps That dustcover would be purely cosmetic - under it would be the same as you have just not colour-coded.

As for function, well, yours is the same as mine at least to start with. All I'd say is I'd angle the rings upwards so that equal force is put on the screws and the channel the ring is in. I think it would also look better to have it angled in the direction that the wire goes away from it.

Assuming two wall hooks are used as recommended - if you attached those rings with just one loose screw and hung the picture, they would pivot upwards and that natural angle is how (IMHO) they should be fixed.

[Nigel Nobody]

The black tape, backing and the brass coloured Dee rings and brass wire look good.
IMHO your treatment of the back doesn't look better than if you used chrome dee rings and Supersoftstrand wire, it looks different!
I agree with Robo, that a black dustcover would look much better than the tape following all the contours, that is if you wish to be obsessive about how the back looks. Personally I don't think that is a necessary improvement.

The effort put into the design of the back is spoiled by two things.
1. The fact that brass wire tarnishes, which provides a built in deterioration factor to the colour co-ordination.
2. As Robo pointed out, the dee rings are not placed at the angle at which the wire will be, when hung.

Personally I wouldn't care if brass wire was half an inch in diameter, I wouldn't use it because of the tarnishing that will occur. There are better products available now!

Just as a matter of interest, what is the "solid black mountboard" on the back?

[prospero]

Personally....... I like nice bronzed D-rings that Lion do. They also do matching cord, but I always use SSStrand.
So that's knackered that design concept.

[Roboframer]

I lke brass screws in silver 'D' rings too - which knackers it more!

Anyway - respect to anyone who can win customers by doing things differently on the back of a frame - I know just from using bump-ons (felt, or the domed ones on NYAF's) how people can be impressed. I've rarely had a re-frame job with bump-ons on - maybe they fell off though (not)

And i've definitely never ever ever ever had a reframe job with the wall hook points indicated on the backing - and I do that on every job, (with a verbal explanation I'm getting slightly fed up of!)

[Not your average framer]

if Super softstrand came with a gold coating, it really would look classy to have that on the back of gold frames and the normal stuff on the backs of silver ones.

If it does come one day with a gold coating, I would indeed be interested. Even better if it could be nice and chunky, so I can have those nice chunky twists at each end which look so nice.

All I'd say is I'd angle the rings upwards so that equal force is put on the screws and the channel the ring is in. I think it would also look better to have it angled in the direction that the wire goes away from it.

That's a very interesting point. I have seen this done on some frames, but I have not chosen to do so myself. This might be something to consider for discussion. It would be ineresting to know how many angle their D-rings like this.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Ormond,

The black mountboard in this case is Colourmount (a UK brand), but I have used Neilsen Bainbridge too. The tape is also made by Colourmount and is intended for wrapping deep bevels.

[Not your average framer]

I know just from using bump-ons (felt, or the domed ones on NYAF's) how people can be impressed.

That's true and another great thing about bump-ons is they cost very little and take almost no time at all to stick them on. I like the clear domed ones as thay show through the colour of whatever you stick them onto to and just add a little touch of class.

I like finishing touches and think they make so much difference to customers perceptions. Like I keep saying it's nice to be a little bit different in nice ways and to hope that the customer will notice.

Reputations are built on many things and good impressions is a good place to start!

[Roboframer]

All I'd say is I'd angle the rings upwards so that equal force is put on the screws and the channel the ring is in. I think it would also look better to have it angled in the direction that the wire goes away from it.

That's a very interesting point. I have seen this done on some frames, but I have not chosen to do so myself. This might be something to consider for discussion. It would be ineresting to know how many angle their D-rings like this.

Probably not many, so something else to impress a customer with.

These fixings from lion come already angled -so there must be something to it!



......................

[Nigel Nobody]

I always angle my dee rings close to the angle the wire will be when hung. I would not deem it necessary to use two screw, dee rings on a frame as small as in the photo, however I use screws that are quite long and they are 6 gauge. I only use two screw, dee rings on much larger frames than that.

As far as the black matboard is concerned, it would add quite a considerable cost to every frame if you use a conservation quality matboard on the back. It would be much more cost effective and look much better to use a black dustcover to achieve the same overall appearance.

[Bagpuss]

I don't know where I got the idea but I used some Black standard mountboard on the back of a poster today, it did look pretty classy .... but then I had run out of Art-Bak so I was a bit desperate

[Roboframer]

I always angle my dee rings close to the angle the wire will be when hung. I would not deem it necessary to use two screw, dee rings on a frame as small as in the photo,

I think there are actually 3 screws in those rings

[Not your average framer]

I think there are actually 3 screws in those rings

Yes, they are three hole rings and are known as plate rings. The ring part is round, not D shaped. They are made from much thicker metal than a D-ring and are welded at the join. They are pricey, but they give a traditional, high quality look and feel. I think they look the business and customers say that they like them. I stock them in two sizes.

[Nigel Nobody]

I think there are actually 3 screws in those rings

I guess that's playing it safe, just in case the owner of the frame wanted to fix a 500 lb name plate on it!

I must say this thread is a real eye opener for me! I think it's very commendable for someone to put such effort, time and money into the back of a frame. I sincerely hope that there is proportionally more effort, time and money going into the inside & the front than the back!