The Framers Forum

Hi, hopefully someone can give me a little direction here .... I have a few gold mouldings especially a Simons 8000/0042 and most of the time the edges on the corners get chipped when cutting, actually, it's never as good as I'd like it - I've ruined a lot of stuff not to mention the waste of money What am I doing wrong? Cutting it with a Morso F, the top edge (front) looks fine, just the outer corner edges. Hmm, not sure if I'm explaining myself properly Maybe I should post some pics???

It's probably just morso-unfriendly, the morso doesn't like many plaster coated mouldings or certain types of wood and if you get a combination, it can be really bad.

Cheers, well, that gives things a positive spin, maybe I'm not doing anything wrong then which is always a bonus I reckon. It would be a shame though as it's a nice moulding - if it isn't Morso friendly what would be the friendly method of getting a nice clean edge?

Y'know somedays you think things are going well and then you get this clanker - just the powers that be keeping me down

My friendly method of a nice clean edge is to toss the problematic moulding in to the bin! Just today a coated moulding that was always very nice to cut came not-very-nice-to-cut, something had changed, either the wood, the quality of the gesso or both - I made it good and then took the sample off the wall and kung-fu-ed what I had left, very satisfying!

The alternative would be a dirty great double mitre saw C/W dust extractor, compressor and a lot of noise, or a lot of finishing after cutting, maybe with a mitre sander; probably with a load of goldfinger, gilt cream/wax etc. You'll probably not be charging for that time though.

Is it mainly plaster (gesso) coated moudlings that are a problem anyway? If your blades, apart from being sharp, are going in to the gap between the fences to a point where just another half a mil would make them touch, and if they cut something like a deep rebate hardwood like ash with no problem, then it's probably the moulding and not you/your machine.

Is chop service a go-er?

I am in total agreement with roboframer, some mouldings are not worth the hassle to stock, however if you have a bit of this left and want to use it there are a couple of things you can do to help.

This type of heavily gessoed mouldings cut better when warmer, it can also help to put strips of waste mount board/backing board behind the moulding when cutting, this does 2 things, it helps support the back edge as the blades pass through and means it isn't the tip of the blade that is cutting, don't forget to adjust you rebate size if you try this.

Still a pita, but could help.

Thanks for the replies guys, based on what you've said it looks like it's the moulding, I checked the blades like you suggested and everthing looks fine there and cutting other mouldings don't seem to be a problem (at the moment) - couldn't help but laugh at the kung-fu extraction method, yesterday I done something similar only a bit more less reserved with a hammer, my toe and few bad words.

That's an excellent idea with the waste material though - I'll give that a go as I've got two lengths of the devil moulding left.

Thanks again, replies like those help keep my mental state at a reasonable level.

Here's one from today, all the cuts in to the wood/coating, were made with my thumbnail!

Is that 225167000 because if it is we have had a load like that this month, bad batch?

No, it's 14016700 - from the 'confetti' range. Pack of 4, this was the second length, first was fine, 3rd and 4th are sweating!

Has that range lost it's thick gesso then? If it has I will start to stock it again

Yes it has - due to complaints (and no doubt competition from ranges like Simons 'Festival') just hope it's not at the expense of wood-quality, but I ordered the large profile at the same time and it was fine, other colours previous have been too.

This is probably a stupid question but if most framers use (or do they??) guillotine cutters e.g. Morso when why are some mouldings not Morso-etc friendly? I'll need to keep an eye out for the mouldings I order if I only end up with a load of firewood with some

I found there were two issues causing problems on the morso.

The gesso coated mouldings were always a problem so you can steer clear of these fairly easily.

The second problem was a lot harder to deal with, I noticed a lot of wood had got noticably lighter over the years and this can easily be crushed by the morso blades when cutting. The problem here is the lack of consistency as one length is perfect then the next can be firewood, it got to the point where I could tell before I even cut it just by picking it up and feeling the weight of the wood. There is very little you can do with these lengths other than returning them to your supplier. In the end i opted for a cassese saw which finally solved the problem, but at substantial cost!

Hi guys

Late update to the awful edges, here are more examples - is this typical of a morso/gesso combination? If so it looks like I'm really limited on what mouldings I can offer

I've tried the piece of board behind the fence trick, I've even tried to support the bottom (of the moulding). The bottom corner just keeps falling breaking off. If anybody is interested the mouldings are both from Simons 8000/0042 & 2000/0068.

Any advice ?

Cheers

It's one of those facts of life, that cheap far east imported mouldings with thick gesso are usually risky to cut on a Morso. They will cut a lot better on a twin bladed electric mitre saw, but not all of us have got one.

Sooner, or later we all get to learn these things and for most of us, it's usually the hard way.

If it has to be low cost mouldings of the type which normally have a gesso type finish and you need to cut then on a Morso, then how about using a similar profile polymer moulding instead?

This is the embarassing bit - what's a polymer moulding ? (thanks for the reply)

Plastic/synthetic, but they can have their own cutting and joining issues too.

Make sure your blades are sharp, I know a few who leave em on far to long.

I note from your pictures that it is the very bottom that is chipping, make sure your blades are traveling all the way through and pass just bellow the bottom back edge of your moulding.

Roboframer wrote:
The alternative would be a dirty great double mitre saw C/W dust extractor, compressor and a lot of noise, or a lot of finishing after cutting, maybe with a mitre sander; probably with a load of goldfinger, gilt cream/wax etc. You'll probably not be charging for that time though.

Why would you need to finish the cut and fill with guilt creams

The whole point of a mitre saw is that they give you a far superior cut and are exactly what they use with a chop service.

However one of your mouldings 2000/0068 is one I struggle to cut satisfactorily with a mitre saw and even if it does cut ok the corner is weakened and will usually chip in the following days.

I avoid it at all cost now.