The Framers Forum

Securing the frame The frame must be secured firmly with framers' points, tacks or similar. Flexible tabs are not acceptable.

anyone able to explain why the 5 levels of framing disallow Flexi Tabs for everything but budget?

We've been having a little education session here and trying to improve the quality of our service to be conservation level as standard, and have just found the tab situation a little surprising. Especially as no reason is provided. The F/T multi/flexi points are an excellent thing for using when you get the item in the frame first of all - two fired in helps secure it in place while you get rid of dust and specks

Let The Intelligent Discussion Begin!

Mary & Grahame

Quote: Securing the frame The frame must be secured firmly with framers' points, tacks or similar. Flexible tabs are not acceptable.........

Was it originally an “intelligent” statement!!!!!

And I wonder if we can expect an “intelligent” answer HERE from the organisation that put that statement out........

I expect not they have to date displayed no “intelligent” approach to a form of communication that is the fastest growing in the world.............

The organisation in question appears to think that the “intelligent” way to deal with a forum like we have at the community here is to ignore it.........which from where I stand brings everything they represent into question.............

Five levels?

I have three.

1. Active conservation

2. Passive conservation

3. Non Conservation

But I think preservation is a better word.

Anyway - regarding the flexipoints, I'd agree, or would have until I recently bought a pneumatic tab gun.

The manual one did not fire the tabs in as far - flexible or rigid, , the sealing tape stopped them from coming out, and even when it was all sealed up, if flexitabs were used, you could push the glass and there would be movement.

Flexitabs fired with the maual gun for a ready made frame would drop out after the backs had been removed once or twice, depending on the type of wood.

But with a pneumatic tab gun I use the semi-rigid tabs for normal stuff and the flexibles for readymades. Once in they stay put.

we use the fletcher multipoints for our readymades.

we can't afford the space for a second air compressor, so i doubt if we will ever get a pneumatic tab gun...


we are already maxxing out our Bambi with the Underpinner and air "foofer" gun

of course, it may only be a matter of time until we get a new compressor, that and the CMC i want

Well if and when you upgrade to a pneumatic tab gun, you won't look back.

Roboframer wrote:Well if and when you upgrade to a pneumatic tab gun, you won't look back.

Very true John! I just bought another standard one. Wore the old out. A Cassese this time, which is expensive but very good. Already have a Cassese "Jumbo" tab gun.

I suppose I am very, very bad because I do use the tab gun to hold stuff in frames. I would love to be able to get a more rigid tab so they don't bend quite as easily, but I counteract this by inserting them fairly close together. About 60-70 mm.

One big advantage is that when I have to take something apart a thousand times to get specks of carp out, the tabs make it a little easier!

Well, Omer make a gun that fires rigid tabs and so do Fletcher Terry.

But the Omer 53 fires both flexible and semi rigid, also comes in a heavy duty version and a repeating version.

The semi rigid tabs, fired pneumatically offer more strength than a rigid tab fired manually.

Perhaps that was written before foam and suchlike were considered suitable backing materials.

I suppose you could say that firing a nail or staple through an MDF back into the frame would tend to integrate the back and frame structurally, making for a sturdier unit.

However foam and other lightweight backing are probably better held in place much better with flat tabs.

The original quote has not been credited. However, if possible, why not put your query to the author? It could be that there has been a recent revision.

John,
I recently tried a gun that is an Omer, but sold down here as a "Taurus Bantam".
They stated that they had two thicknesses in tabs. I measured the thicker "semi-rigid" tab with a micrometer and it is exactly the same thickness as the standard Cassese tab.

It would appear that there isn't a pneumatic gun that uses anything more rigid than this these two.

The Bantam gun also had a mechanism which pressed the tab down onto the backing, but didn't press it down anywhere near hard enough for me.

I agree with you that "The semi rigid tabs, fired pneumatically offer more strength than a rigid tab fired manually."

Quote: Securing the frame The frame must be secured firmly with framers' points, tacks or similar. Flexible tabs are not acceptable.

Ah, but where do semi-rigid points come in this statement? - Are they classed as flexi-tabs?

Having work in industry for many years while also observing various published standards, I cannot recall the words "or similar" appearing in any other published standards, except where further qualifying criteria leave the reader in no doubt as to exactly what is or is not acceptable.

osgood wrote:John,
I recently tried a gun that is an Omer, but sold down here as a "Taurus Bantam".
They stated that they had two thicknesses in tabs. I measured the thicker "semi-rigid" tab with a micrometer and it is exactly the same thickness as the standard Cassese tab.

Well the tabs I buy (alphamachine) are advertised as the same thickness (flexi & semi-rigid) but they also do a rigid which is thicker and therefore needs a separate gun.

The semi rigid is just made from less flexible stuff and is silver as opposed to the flexible, which is black.

BANTAM

Omer 53

Seems the Bantam needs its own tabs, like the Fletcher Terry, but the Omer takes several makes of tab.

John,

The Bantam that I used was identical to the Omer 53 in the link you posted, but with the addition of the pressing mechanism. That mechanism was slightly different to the one on the Bantam link. The Bantam link is probably a newer model than the one I tried.

It appears to me that Bantam and Omer are the same machine.

Both Cassese and Bantam black tabs are not only the same thickness, size and shape, but the amount of flex is the same too! I will ask my Cassese supplier about the silver tabs. I have had those when the black ones were out of stock, but didn't notice any difference in flex.

Really boils down to rigid points for permanent work. Flexi for off the shelf stock and where the customer requires the back to be removable.

Flexi does not generally look neat under gumstrip tape and the appearance of the back is as important as the front of your workmanship.

I use flexi tabs where the frame rebate isn't deep enough to take, for example, a double window mount.

So long as the package doesn't stick out more than 2 or 3 mm it's quicker, cheaper and neater than building up the back of the moulding or using rabbet space.

Any problems with that?

Well, it's easier to break the seal - also, hold the frame up in front of you and push the glass with your thumbs, any movement?

The tabs are being made into 'S' or 'Z' shapes instead of being flat and less of them are on the surface of the backing board.


I do it all the time!

The Jumbo tabs are excellent for this as they are about one inch long and very thick.

A quick tip: Never, never, never fire a Jumbo tab into your finger instead of the frame!
If I have to explain that to you, try it for yourself because I'm not explaining it!

I have a question on this flex tab issue. Flex tabs are rather new to the custom shop, within the last 10 years or so. Has the Guild actually really taken a look at their standards reciently to to address this issue.

I am of the opinion that a metal fastener made of basic coated steel is a fastener of basic coated steel. Other than the gauge of the 2 fasteners, what is the real difference in them? Yes, I know they have different heat treatments to make one more flexable than the other. That changes the crystal structure, not the alloy.

JFeig wrote: Has the Guild actually really taken a look at their standards reciently to to address this issue.

Other than the gauge of the 2 fasteners, what is the real difference in them? Yes, I know they have different heat treatments to make one more flexable than the other. That changes the crystal structure, not the alloy.

Maybe the Guild have, but if they were to find something really really good from someone that is not one of their members, they would keep schtung so as not to upset a member that makes an inferior product.

I see that all the time from them.

As for the difference between flexible and semi-rigid - one bends - the other does too, but you wouldn't wanna try it if you were concerned about your manicure!

Even the rigid points will bend - I know they will - many is the time, with a re-framing job* with an MDF backing that I have removed the rigid points on just one side and then ripped out the MDF backing, leaving the remaining points bent outwards.

*Conditions apply

i love the disclaimer John!

i've done the same many a time, (usually on items where the frame has disintigrated after an incident with gravity). 9 times out of ten though It is often easier to peel the frame off the glass and backingboard package.

Roboframer wrote:Well, it's easier to break the seal - also, hold the frame up in front of you and push the glass with your thumbs, any movement?

The tabs are being made into 'S' or 'Z' shapes instead of being flat and less of them are on the surface of the backing board.


I do it all the time!

I've not noticed any problems with glass movement so far. I put the art-bak into the frame as a spacer when inserting the tabs so that they won't touch the glass. Then I remove the art-bak and put it together.

I normally use a hammer and punch to open up the tabs which also ensure they're tight in the moulding. Then, after placing the package in, followed by the art-bak, I fold the tabs down and use the punch to ensure that the bed themselve flush with the art-bak.

I also generally use 50 - 100% more flexitabs on a picture than I would if they were hard tabs (just in case).

I use a Duo tab gun. I bought that thinking it would save money but I soon got fed up with swapping the tabs over so I now have two Duo guns. Unfortunately, Lion seem to have dropped them from their latest catalogue.