The Framers Forum

I have read some pieces and noted fantastic examples of CMC work and we are looking to invest in one but are not sure what to go for

can anyone point me to any old debates on the forum as to choice and what we should be looking for plus peoples experiences with them, good and bad. bear in mind we are bespoke and not mass producing

If there isn't much on here can anyone give us some advice from their experience
can't beat comments from the people who use them

cheers

best suggestion would be head to spring fair in febuary and make appointments to see the 4 main suppliers, they will all have stands there, that what i did when i went for my gunnar

prob you will find is each user will say there machine is the best, actually most people its the only one they have used

I agree with stcstc, wait until the Spring Fair, it's a big investment, so don't rush into too quick, make a list of your priorities of want you want to do with it, and have a play with each make at NEC try the software, to see how easy it is for what you want to do with it.

For me it's the Valiani hands down

The advice that I was given from the USA some 8 years ago was:

Take a diagram of a mount with you to any trade fair where all CMC distributors are on display.
Hand the diagram to the demonstrator and ask him/her to design and cut whilst you are there.

That way you will see the design process on screen using the application software, then you will see the cutting operation.
This is the one I asked to be cut. As you can see I asked for a stacked triple mount. Clipart on the bottom mount and Embossed lines on the top mount. With the technology so much more advanced today, you can add Text onto the mountboard as well.
Only 3 CMC distributors were present at the NEC that year.
One could not do a stacked mount. Only separate layers.
One told me to come back the next day.
One completed the process in about 10 minutes. I am sure that would have been quicker if I had not asked questions during the process.

I agree with the statements already posted. It is a big investment. Look at the rental options. Look at the after sales support.
You will/may need a PC - some CMC's come with a PC. You will need a compressor. What room do you have - Some have a fairly big footprint.
Do you need a standard ie clamped system or a Vacuum table.
Just a few more things to ponder

Try and go for the complete setup, With CMC, Computer, Compressor etc. It will work out cheaper and get a better deal in NEC. Also once you buy the CMC they will set it up and give training

Agree with stcstc and Merlin - head to Spring Fair and ask lots of questions and ask them to demonstrate from a piece of work you take along. Have a play with the software and see which one you prefer. Ask questions about set up and training and after sales support and before you go along have a measure up in your workshop to work out what will fit. We had just reorganised our whole workshop before taking the plunge and hadn't taken a CMC into account, luckily it fitted in ok once it arrived.

It is a big decision and a big financial commitment but you won't regret it. We consider it an extra staff member and we wouldn't be without it now. It makes life so much easier and means you can offer your customers so much more choice.

We went for the Valiani partly because we had the pneumatic version beforehand and we were very happy with that one, but also because we bought Merlin's second hand one from the forum. And we can't fault the after sales service from him

In addition to the above great advice I would add that you may also wish to consider how many large mounts you cut. The wizard cuts jumbo mountcard 40 x 60 as standard for instance.

I'll second the size thing (but all CMCs are available with the larger bed, Wizard just comes that size as standard) - 36x36 for example isn't exactly huge but you'd need a CMC that cuts jumbo board for it. 40x40 can be cut on a manual 48" mount cutter so why lash out on a machine that can't do something you could always do manually. Would be a bit embarrassing/frustrating if you did and had to sub-out anything larger than 32" on both sides

it really depends on the work you do

but in 4 or 5 years or whatever it is i have had my machine, i have only needed to cut a handfull of mounts larger than i could handle

even if it was as many as 1 a month, the extra cash and more importantly space wouldnt be paid for by those few mounts

so for me it doesnt make sense

ALTHOUGH

one thing i will do when i upgrade mine is get one where i can cut to the edges, I cut masses of 20*16 mounts, and having to cut boards to blanks on my fletcher first is a pain.


my ideal machine would be standard sized bed, vacuum clamp, and be able to trim to crop marks for complete registration

Thats pretty much our machine, the camera can detect and cut to crop marks, it does only come in the big bed with the vacuum.

I do prefer the gunnar software and twin heads would defiantly be better for us, we are just doing a order for about eight hundred 40 x 40s and it's a pain changing the head for the outside cut.

It does depend on the work you do, the space you have available too of course, but, assuming you have the space (which you'll have to have for the Wizard), it can also depend on the work you would like to be able to do/offer.

I have a 60" Excalibur and (still have) a 60" ultimat gold so there was no way I was going for a standard-sized bed.

One big PITA with the large bed, if using it to its full capacity on a regular basis, is slip mats.

IFGL wrote
" we are just doing a order for about eight hundred 40 x 40s and it's a pain changing the head for the outside cut."

I just cut all the blanks first

slip mats for a jumbo cutter aren't a problem - you can tape standard boards together or use a jumbo board as a slip.

Steve N wrote:IFGL wrote
" we are just doing a order for about eight hundred 40 x 40s and it's a pain changing the head for the outside cut."

I just cut all the blanks first

still a pain, nice thing with the gunnar both at once un-attened

We don't hear much about tru-cut - double-headed. http://www.trucut.co.uk/whybuy.htm
.

thanks to everyone for their insight

going to the nec is a very good way forward

Hi All

Watching with interest you views and feedback. As a CMC owner of 10 years I confirm the need to own one depends on your workflow and need to perform multi aperture mounts. I still have my Keencut Ultra Gold and Valiani Mat Pro 120 sitting in my workshop for that "just in case" but not used for years and suggest I may not be able to if needed (lost the skills and knowledge to set up verniers etc; age thing). My offer of opinion is if you want or need all the bells and whistles on a CMC go for it but, if funds are limited a basic machine will be adequate.

As for twin head, vac table and clamps, all the way I say. Still can't fully understand how others compete full fill sheet cuts without these.

I am a proud owner of the Trucut Excel (twin head) with 4 optional board clamps fitted; never let me down and the back up form the company faultless.

MartyD

I have the Tru Cut Excel double headed machine.
When we bought it about 15 years ago it was the only affordable double headed machine on the market.
Its a real work horse, its fast (no head changing) ,very reliable and well engineered. Its British made in Manchester and Tru Cut's support is second to none. There blades are also very competitively priced
It offers both a vacuum table and/or physical clamps so 20 x 16's out of standard board are no problem.

If I ever need to replace my CMC I would definitely be considering a Valiani. I was fortunate enough to visit their factory in Certaldo whilst i was researching which CMC to buy and they are obviously superb engineers.
However, this was at the time of Valiani's very first CMC and Tru Cut were further ahead in their development and they had much better production features. I now feel the tables may well have turned.

Valiani now have 8 CMC's. From entry level up to high speed, double headed, double cutting table.
Visit the NEC in 2014 and give me a shout.
I will be on the D & J Simons Machinery stand demonstrating the CMC's and V-Studio software.