Stains & Varnishes help needed

[PeterWright]

Hi Everyone

I would like to get into staining, varnishing or waxing my own frames. Anyone with any experience could point me in the right direction to best places to buy and best products to use. Not sure of the pro's and con's of using waxes against say varnish etc etc so any advice would be very much appreciated!

thanks in advance

Peter

[Tudor Rose]

There is loads of information on the Forum if you do a search but in particular can I suggest you do a search on Prospero's postings as he features loads of very helpful advice on just this kind of thing.

[PeterWright]

Thanks will have a look

[prospero]

It very much depends on the type of wood. Stuff with a nice grain pattern needs a transparent finish. Hard woods like oak and ash often need just a waxing. There are various coloured waxes which give different effects, but clear wax will cause the least colour shift in the wood.

For a good polished finish, French Polish (Shellac) is very useful. Wipe on with a rag - let dry -sand - repeat. The more coats you put on, the deeper the shine. Finish off with wax polish.

Stains are more tricky. Water-based ones work well with some woods. Spirit-based with others. There are a multitude of methods, but we are doing picture frames not furniture so you don't really need to agonise too much.

Softer woods like Obeche are not so conducive to staining and polishing. These woods are better for painted finishes which may be done to resemble a more exotic woodgrain. A very old technique.
Pine can be very problematic to stain as the results are unpredictable.

[Not your average framer]

Pine can be very problematic to stain

Your not kidding! However, there's some really great value for money pine profiles out there, so it's worth finding some quick and easy finishes which work well. Blackfriar's produce a water based exterior wood stain which dries very fast and results in quite a thick coating on the surface of the wood.

So far I've only tried it in "nut brown", which was great and I've ordered a tin of "golden teak" to try on a fluted obeche moulding with dark washes in the grooves between the flutes. The golden teak will probably arrive tomorrow, so if I get the time, I'll be giving it a go!

It's difficult to come up with a stained finish for pine which does not look too dated, or just cheap, but it can be done. A lot of the wider pine mouldings can be quite knotty and subject to variations in the quality of the machined finish in proximity of the knots, but there's some really great profiles which can work out as a good deal for the money.

Knots need sealing with a couple of coats of shellac. Toning different areas on the moulding with different colour washes under the stain can add a little extra interest and dark streaks of red(ish), orange(ish), brown(ish), or darker blue(ish) greys (also before applying the stain) can help to hide some of the knots. It takes a bit of practice to get this right, but it works really well under darker stain colours.

The Blackfriar's stain has quite a high gloss and it forms a really hard finish. I prefer to add a dusty wash in a matt acrylic glaze medium over the woodstain, so the gloss needs to be matted down using a fine silicone carbide paper, otherwise the dusty wash /glaze will not stick to the surface of the stain. You don't want to spend any time being fussy, not only because this should be a quick and easy finish, but also speed is neccessary to ensure a good level of profit.

Pine mouldings can often look much more interested with a washed finish, instead of a stained finish. I tend to favour larger pine profiles, or smaller pine profiles stacked together to create larger profiles and using dull, muted base colour washes with dusty antique wash effects on top of the base colour washes. It helps to be able to see examples of older moulding styles to understand the full potential of these techniques.

When the Christmas rush has died down, I'll try and produce some examples so I can post some photographs.

[PeterWright]

Wow thanks for all the help guys... Who is a good supplier of Shellac, stains and waxes?

[PeterWright]

photo 1.JPG

photo 3.JPG

Here are two images of a frame I would like to try and replicate the colour of. I have been told the colour is Dark Oak, I have tried a dark oak on a raw pine and it comes out far to light, any ideas?

[Graysalchemy]

I use Osmo Polyox waxes, its a liquid wax/varnish which comes in colour. The black mixed with a bit of mahogany spirit stain produces wonderful deep wenge's and dark oaks.

That is what i would use. However it is dependent on how well the wood takes the stain.

The black is good for general filling of corners of matt black frames and the clear is my default wax for any natural wood mouldings and furniture, the kids new wardrobes beckon this weekend mustn't forget the wax.

[prospero]

Peter W. I wouldn't even attempt it.

It's bad enough trying to match the colour, but you need a wood that matches as well. The term 'Pine' is very broad. Any softwood gets called pine but it could be one of a multitude of species. And within one tree you are going to get big variations according to how it was cut. Also the amount of time it has been milled comes into the equation. It with darken over a few years. then there is the moisture content. All these things affect the way the wood will take stain.

All in all, if you want a set of matching frames you have to do them all at the same time with the same batch of moulding.

[Ricky]

Tudor Oak is what you need for that colour Liberon Palette wood dye & Liberon Black Bison Wax

[stcstc]

I use Osmo Polyox waxes, its a liquid wax/varnish which comes in colour. The black mixed with a bit of mahogany spirit stain produces wonderful deep wenge's and dark oaks.

which one exactly is the clear i know i saw it when was over but seems like the various clear ones available


and chance of a pic of the can or something alistair please

[Graysalchemy]

Hi steve.

This is the original clear



available in satin matt (which I use) matt and semi matt.

The tints are these ones



I use the ebony which is really good.

[stcstc]

cheers man