Software for pricing - opinions for a newbie please

aquaframe · Post by **aquaframe** » Mon 25 Jun, 2007 8:23 pm

Hi

I am just in the process of taking over a framing business. The present owner currently prices manually but i think that a computer generated invoice will look more professional, more transaparent for the customer and easier to do.

the question i have is which software do you all use and what are the good points/ bad points of them. Also do you agree that havibg software is a good idea?

Thanks for your help!

Aquaframe

absolute framing · Post by **absolute framing** » Mon 25 Jun, 2007 9:02 pm

Hi,

I love the EstLite system and have been using it for 2 years. I would never go back to the manual system. That said, i have not tried any of the other systems - but have no reason too !

Good Luck,

Stephen

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Mon 25 Jun, 2007 11:41 pm

My pricing system has a 500 zillion gigglebyte drive whotsit thingy.

It can, in one millisecond, suss out a customer - it's called a brain!

Sorry - you are right on the professional look of a printed invoice etc - then again, the giant of our UK framing suppliers takes orders on a duplicate pad and personally I like dealing with humans. Then again (again) the same company's accounts dept are well up to speed on technology!!

I'm not anti POS - just a dinosaur

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 12:20 am

Roboframer wrote:My pricing system has a 500 zillion gigglebyte drive whotsit thingy.

It can, in one millisecond, suss out a customer - it's called a brain!

How many of those "gigglebyte whotsit thingies" are working perfectly?

I hope yours are not like mine, John, because many of mine have become defective or have just buggered off!

Seriously though, most people who don't use software for pricing custom framing are often losing a little here and a little there, which does add up!

As we are now well and truly past the era of the "pencil and jotter", any professional custom framer should be using software for pricing! One big advantage is that customers are more accepting of the price that comes out of a machine than a price that comes out of someone's mind or a few apparently careless scribbles on a piece of paper!

aquaframe · Post by **aquaframe** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 10:15 am

Thanks for your replies - will be interested to hear of other systems too.

Interested too in the "software or not" debate - i can see pros and cons for both.

Will have a look at the Estlite system - does it allow for sales of other products too? we are going to sell pictures and cards etc and it woud be good to have a system that can produces invoices for both sales and framing - or am i being a bit optimistic?!!

regards

aquaframe

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 10:31 am

aquaframe wrote: Interested too in the "software or not" debate - i can see pros and cons for both.

You might have to enlighten me as to the pros of not having pricing software! I just can't think of one!

Post by **John** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 12:00 pm

aquaframe wrote:Will have a look at the Estlite system - does it allow for sales of other products too? we are going to sell pictures and cards etc and it would be good to have a system that can produces invoices for both sales and framing - or am i being a bit optimistic?!!

EstLite has a till function that will record all transactions and can even be hooked up to a till-roll printer and cash drawer. However the system is very flexible and many users adapt the framing docket for this purpose instead.

The till is very handy for bank reconciliation at time of lodgement, in fact if you put any value on your own time, software that can save time with just this one endeavour will more than pay for itself within a year. And of course, the records that it keeps are great for analysing the business.

markw · Post by **markw** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 12:01 pm

pros:
speed - accuracy - repeatability - customer perception - business record keeping - accurate detailed invoice copy for customer, customer informed of exact price - details and delivery date. customer records - sales database.

cons - they stop working when the power goes off.

aquaframe · Post by **aquaframe** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 8:01 pm

Great thank you - will def have a look at EstLite. Has anyone any experience of Quickprice?

Also the business does not currently have a credit card machine and we think it is important to have such this facility - do you all have CC facilities? If so has the Guild's agreement with Bank of Scotland the most competitive or have any of you found better ones?

I know it's cheeky to ask but as you can tell, i'm a little "green" to all this and it's good to kow what other people are doing! I will of course be doing my own research too!

Thanks

Aqua

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 8:27 pm

markw wrote: cons - they stop working when the power goes off.

I hadn't thought of that one! Now that you have mentioned that, I do remember one occasion when the power was off and I couldn't work out a price for a customer. I had to phone them later and give them the price. Cost me a phone call too.........maybe I shouldn't have invested in that software after all....would have saved 20 cents if I'd been using a pencil and paper. Bugger!!!

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 8:34 pm

aquaframe wrote: I will of course be doing my own research too!

It might be a good idea to canvas what software other framers are using in your country.
Also compare what software they use and the type of business they have. If you want to be successful, try to emulate what other successful businesses do!

Give a little extra weight in your decision, to software that has good backup that's not too far away, like Estlite!

Not your average framer · Tue 26 Jun, 2007 9:18 pm

osgood wrote: I hadn't thought of that one! Now that you have mentioned that, I do remember one occasion when the power was off and I couldn't work out a price for a customer. I had to phone them later and give them the price. Cost me a phone call too.........maybe I shouldn't have invested in that software after all....would have saved 20 cents if I'd been using a pencil and paper. Bugger!!!

Power cuts are quite common here in rural Devon. We use a price chart, because that's how we started off, but if you are worried about power cuts, you can always use a lap top and run it on the mains electricity. The battery will keep it going if the power goes down.

I've had a trial copy of Estlite (from Ashworth and Thompson) and it's very simple and easy to use. I think it stops working after it's trial period after which time you can buy it if you like it and have it re-activated.

Post by **John** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 9:25 pm

Well spotted, the A+T program is a cut down version of EstLite.

markw · Post by **markw** » Wed 27 Jun, 2007 8:42 am

Power cuts are not a problem - it was a flippant remark. Price grids - If I was a customer I would not be impressed by someone working out the price of my job longhand - then giving me a handwritten acknowledgement of the work to be undertaken.

The difference of pennies in moulding cost can mean £s in profit - same applies to fractional sizing - both are difficult to accomplish with a grid that by its nature groups sizes.

Regular customers details are instantly available - I often get repeat orders - no problem - same price - same spec - and I dont have to repeat the data collection of names addresses etc. Customer fails to turn up - all details are at hand - customer quibbles spec - They have it in front of them clearly printed.

Time is money - a micro calculated accurate print out with all details in seconds, or, just hang on whilst I figure out the price on this complicated price grid and then write out your order ? its a no brainer - go for the pricing programme.

Roboframer - you are obviously very computer savvy - you produce a newsletter - and yet you dont use the advantage of instant data collection. Estlite (I'm not on commission) can be paired with a postcode programe that fills in address data automatically - this can then be accesed to give you a mailing list. Saves lots of time - done once with your new customer.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Wed 27 Jun, 2007 1:16 pm

Hi Aquaframe,

I was in the same position as you two years ago. I changed career and had a very tough time with pricing - and lost money through getting job pricing wrong.

In the last two years, I looked at a number of pricing software packages, but eventually developed my own Excel-based pricing system - it's a bit clunky (don't know how to do fancy input forms yet...) but it does the job so I'll stick with it now. However, recently I looked at Est-Lite, and was very impressed with it. IMHO, it's very well designed, extremely quick and easy to learn and use, and excellent value for money (including an incredilbly fair and sensiible licensing policy). If I'd found it earlier, I'd have jumped at it.

Whatever system you do choose, I can't recommend automatiion of job pricing highly enough. It will cut your learning curve significantly.

I wish you the very best of luck with your new venture!

Not your average framer · Wed 27 Jun, 2007 9:57 pm

John wrote:Well spotted, the A+T program is a cut down version of EstLite.

Hi John,

I didn't realise there was any difference. Perhaps you would like to explain want else the full program has which I was not aware of.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 27 Jun, 2007 10:26 pm

markw wrote: Roboframer - you are obviously very computer savvy - you produce a newsletter - and yet you dont use the advantage of instant data collection.

No - I'm not very computer savvy at all - 50% of those newsletters go out by post, not email.

My car has a 6 disc CD/MP3 player - and I've no idea how to make MP3 discs for it to take.

I can type letters in word - cut and paste stuff, load and print my own photos, send multiple emails 'blind' - (recipients don't get a huge list of all the other recipients) struggling now!!

But after recently advertising for a full time framer, which generated a lot of response, I am interviewing a guy with 13 years experience (in one place) - and that's as much as I have - on Saturday, who has very impressive IT skills - well, impressive to me - words I have never heard of before - like QuarkXpress, InDesign, Powerpoint, etc etc

This is what I need - someone at work who can set things up and show me - as well as giving me the time to be shown. And that's been the problem, time - to do anything else but frame stuff - so - that being the case I can't be doing too bad without a computer at work anywhere, which, like me, needs information punching into it!

If this guy is not the one, the one thing most applicants had in their CVs was good IT skills.

It's a working interview and on paper, he's already got the job - hoping he's not an anorak!

Post by **John** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 7:14 am

NYAF

The original intent was to have an easy introduction to computerised frame pricing, where for very little outlay, a new start could have a tool that would help ensure consistent profitability. With an easy upgrade path to EstLite as business developed and more features were required.

Some of the differences between the two programs are outlined here.

Ricky · Post by **Ricky** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 6:58 pm

Hi Aquaframe

I use This
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PICTURE-FRAMING-P ... dZViewItem

Its Exel Based, Works Well For Me & Its Inexpensive At 14.99

Cheers Ricky

Not your average framer · Thu 28 Jun, 2007 7:34 pm

When I moved from working at home to renting a shop, I had to work out how I was going to do my pricing. Probably like every other guy starting off, I was worried about not being cheap enough, so I kept my prices down.

Then I had a heart attack and was taken to hospital. When I came back to the shop, my wife and I agreed that I should put up my prices so I would get less work while I regained my strength. The result was more work, not less. We increased our prices again, yet more work. Nobody commented on our prices, because nobody noticed anything was different.

The message is simple:-

Let the cheapskates go elsewhere.

Charge a price that properly reflects the time, materials, wastage and workmanship.

Be proud of the fact that you do it properly.