The Framers Forum

I know there has been quite a few debates regarding float glass. I have been having my own problems with chips etc in the glass and the price I seem to have to pay.
I went to order some yesterday and as the sheets came in large sizes (1320 x 2140) @ £22.95/sheet. I asked for them to cut them in half and they wanted to charge me nearly £2.82 to cut EACH sheet in half. This means that were as their original price per m2 was £7.22 its now just a tad more than that. - so unless I have no option, I will not be buying it from there. There was no chance for them changing their mind either - that was the price take it or leave it, they couldn't care less.
I really object to suppliers taking the michael and as I am a new and small framer, I can't justify buying large quantities or have the room to hold it.

SO, my question is: where can I get glass delivered from to Aberdeenshire? can anyone help me please.

Hi
I live on the NW of Scotland and get my glass from Pearsons - you have to order a min of 100 sheets - mine are 1215x915 but they may do bigger - I just can't accomodate them. You need to let them know a while in advance and they will let you know when they can deliver. I am near the end of my last lot and there have been no significant problems with it as far as I can see.

Hope this helps.

I once had a business supplying framers with glass in Ireland..................of all the work I ever done it was the most thankless and the one I never made money out of............the supply of glass is notoriously difficult with a very high wastage and breakage involved..........and the cost of warehousing and handling it is astronomical.

At £2.82 per sheet to split it works out at about £28.20 to £35.00 per hour.........which in my view and experience is way below what any business in the glass processing area should be charging............if you think this is not fair then I have to presume that you are charging below this per hour in your framing business and I would suggest that you have another look at your business plan and your costing.

Remember the £28.20 to £35.00 is what they can charge for the hours actually chargeable ..........from experience glass processors generally only manage to charge for about 60% of shop time....say 38 hour week at £35.00 (47 week year remember holidays and public holidays) say £62K a year to wages, insurance (very high for the glass business) breakage, wastage, transport, scrape recycling, rent and all the other charges related to running a business............I would say your had a very good offer on your hand.........

At about £3.25 per frame “16 x 20” for glass that sounds OK to me...........as a matter of interest what percentage would that be of a mid total price for a finished frame for you............

Also remember that you are been quoted the maximum price that you are likely to have to pay for glass so as your business grows this is a cost that will reduce..........

Start right and charge right from the beginning and your business should grow very successfully ...........charge to little and your business will never profitably grow.........you will only end up with the BFS (busy fool syndrome)

lynnbmack wrote:Hi
you have to order a min of 100 sheets

we use pearsons, but i don't have a minimum order that big, it could be due to the distance though, but we often get lots of sheets in at once.

Yes, I think the distance is definitely an issue - it's not worth delivering less than that - there is also a delivery charge, but not much considering the distance.

Just remember if you are have issues with the supply of glass in your area.............so will all the other framing business.............so there should be no difficulty in factoring in the costs of the glass in the finished product..............be careful what you are comparing your business to........with respect to glass you are not the same as a framer who has two or three options and a few suppliers on their doorstep.............the costs of materials are just another consideration you need to account for ..........just like wastage.........on moulding, mountboard, backing board etc............they are your costs and that’s what you need to work with..........not some perceived and wishful pricing you might get...............work with the costs you have and if you can improve them over time it will be a bonus to your business.......

PS....... an addition to my last post the shop cost of £62K PA would only generate about £37K at 60% efficiency ........my point is to watch your shop hours and the actually hours that you realistically charge....

OK I’m getting down off my band wagon now.........

Hi Dottad
I use CRL Glass & Glazing, West Lothian.
Tel 01506 853774/857940.
Family run business - very helpful.
I order 50 1220x920 sheets at a time.
Last order worked out at £3.51 per sheet.
Don't know full sheet price.
They deliver up here in Aberdeenshire every week (I think!)
Good Luck
Jay.

Thank you all for your replies. You have been more than helpful and I really appreciate it. Dermot, I don't mind your being on the bandwagon, as all you can do is give great advice. thank you.
As I don't do a huge amount of framing at the moment and work from home, I can't buy in large quantities. I will however contact those suppliers.
I did yesterday find a supplier who had a bit of a trauma getting up glass from their other depot, but hopefully I will get my delivery today and at a better price than the other one was quoting and I am not getting charged for getting the large sheets cut into 4x3 sheets.
The cutting charge was my biggest gripe, as if you went into the place to collect, they would cut it free of charge, but as we aren't able to carry big sheets of glass in our car this wasn't an option.

Dermot, I do understand that you charge on your costs plus profit and I have been doing this.

I have been watching also the debates on cassese underpinners as we have a tabletop one at the moment and it looks like in the next few weeks we will be going for the cassese c88.

Indeed Dot, Dermot is spot on when saying the glass co isn't ripping you off, just charging for a service, and at realistic value for you too, I agree with Dermot 100% on that.

If this glass is good quality, you might like to re-think changing, and consider this . . .

If you can take larger sizes, even 2 different size splits of the 1320 x 2140's, the larger the glass size you can start with (safely, storage wise, etc) the less waste you will have.

1200 x 915 is fairly standard for the industry, but boy does this play havoc with waste (all those 300 offcuts !).
Even 1525 x 915 is so much more versatile.