Let me introduce myself.

cubic framer · Post by **cubic framer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 1:44 pm

I have specialised in three-dimensional framing for over thirty years.

After vacating the premises, a year last May, in which I produced over a quarter of a million cased displays and also many items of bespoke three dimensional framing, I have been having a rest.

I am nearly finished fitting out a small studio workshop, but I do not intend to be very commercial, I am enjoying walking and catching up on exploring the countryside, which I had to miss over the last thirty years.

I believe that the use of transparent covers are important to the developement of the concept of artifact framing and the advancement of the framers craft.

In order to discover if the methods I developed during my second career are compatible with the current framing industry, I would be interested in posting topics and entering into discussion to this end.

To this end I hope to have you goodwill.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 1:57 pm

Welcome to the Forum, Cubic Framer!

After all that work, it's a very well-earned rest!

I was intrigued to read of your specialisation in your profile. I'm looking forward to your forum contributions!

Post by **John** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 2:08 pm

Wow CF, you've certainly made it easy for people to contact you.

Welcome to the forum.

Post by **prospero** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 2:14 pm

Greetings Cubic Framer.

I must admit that I do tend to shy away from 3D framing. It's not that I dislike it, it's more because people are generally unwilling to pay a realistic price for the work involved, which in some cases is considerable.
A lady came in a while back with a spray of flowers made of icing. Very delicate. It was off her ruby wedding cake and all contructed with thin wires. I knew that it would take hours to make it secure enough to hang on the wall. I told her in all honesty that I would have to charge £200+. just for the labour and the flowers would probably all disintegrate in a few years anyway.

Let me ask you this: What is the weirdest thing you have ever been asked to frame?

beth · Post by **beth** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 5:46 pm

Hi,

interested to hear what type of 3d items you have framed

I find the same problem as prospero, generally customers do not what to pay the cost of framing a 3d item

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 5:52 pm

Welcome Cubic Framer

I love framing objects - box frames or 'shadow boxes' never done a display case though.

cubic framer · Post by **cubic framer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 6:30 pm

I am being pitched in at the deep end.

I am a newby as all forms of IT, during my time in business my brother and partner was the coputer expert, our business was a treadmill of creating new ideas for the pub interior market, from the 80's through the 90's.

In the last 2 years I have had to go to college to learn how to switch this machine on.

So bear with me if I seem a little slow.

Firstly:- the ability to make a transparent cover transforms the ability to three dimensional frame.

In order to understand the concept may take a little time.

Roboframer, you are half way there when you say you love framing 3D subjects.

prospero, your problems with the sugar icing would melt away with the basic skills of a transparent cover.

and Beth before we get too technical (which may take a bit of time)

a brief resume of the bizarre.

The Duke of Wellingtons brief case.

A stuffed Peacock with entire tail.(not so surprising but for the circumstances under which it was done)

The entire collection of special editions of bottles of beer from the Royal wedding, Charles and Diana.

One of the earliest X-ray tubes.

This barely touches the side of the barrel, what I would hope to show, is that most of that which I have done is well within the reach of most framers, should they have the disposition to do the work.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 6:45 pm

One of our locals has stuffed things in cases on the walls - other stuff too like a set of poacher's tools.

All in cases which look like fish tanks - something I'm not interested in at all, never paid much attention to acrylic display cases either and wouldn't know where to start looking for one if it came to it.

Obviously a market for this type of frame - and who knows, you may convince me yet!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 7:13 pm

You're doing fine on the techie side, Cubic Framer! I've gone in the reverse direction, from engineering to framing.

I'm very interested in learning more about object framing. I've enjoyed the projects I've done so far. Nothing like as advanced or diverse as your examples, mind! One of my customers enquired about potentially framing the top layer of her wedding cake, and I haven't a clue whether it's possible or where to start.

cubic framer · Post by **cubic framer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 7:19 pm

You have posed the first and basic observation that that the framing craft could have addressed 40 years ago. Is the frame balanced on the front edge of a box better than a transparent cover extending from the frame.

This is a judgement I do not make.

If you have the ability to make or acquire a cover, you are in the position to offer your customer the choice.

Is that coming from within the supply chain, because they have already taken the choice for the customer.

This is a basic point that I have hoped to debate.

What I should like to do is show that the choice is open to the idividual framer and his customer.

cubic framer · Post by **cubic framer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 8:13 pm

Quote: I'm very interested in learning more about object framing. I've enjoyed the projects I've done so far. Nothing like as advanced or diverse as your examples, mind! One of my customers enquired about potentially framing the top layer of her wedding cake, and I haven't a clue whether it's possible or where to start.

Your concept of the top tier of wedding cake is simple, had you been about in the Victorian era, a glass dome and turned base would suffice.

You have come from engineerring where engineers make solutions fit problems, or is it the other way around.

I cannot solve the problem overnight, but consider, if you could make a glass cover, the plinth would be relatively simple to any framer.

I solved that problem using the equipement provided by the framing supply industry, to do your job.

The means are there, to bring your customers aspirations and your will to accede to them, together.

I once saw a wedding cake in a dome sell at an antique auction, no one knew how old it was.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 8:34 pm

cubic framer wrote:
Your concept of the top tier of wedding cake is simple, had you been about in the Victorian era, a glass dome and turned base would suffice.

if you could make a glass cover, the plinth would be relatively simple to any framer.

But is this 'Framing'?

It's stuff framers can do, for sure. But so far, this one, and others, don't want to - you have capitalised on that and kudos to you for that.

Your description of the cake matches a very nice clock we have - I wouldn't say that that was 'framed'.

Still - I look forward to seeing how you do it - I wouldn't turn a job down that I could do, if I wanted to do it and if it was the best way.

One day I'll get a football signed all round - or something - I'll either bite the bullet or send them to someone like you who could do it with their eyes closed.

By the way (BTW) if you want to quote someone's post - just press the 'quote' box in their post and the reply form will come up - you can edit their post down to include the releveant bits as I have done with yours.

Preview your post before submitting if in doubt.

BTW (again) how are the floods affecting you?

My roots are near to you - born & bred in Wrexham - large family on my Mother's side in the Newtown/Welshpool area. Lived in Market Drayton for a while.

Shropshire, & the 'Marches' - for me, is the most beautiful part of the world.

cubic framer · Post by **cubic framer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:24 pm

Moglet wrote:You're doing fine on the techie side, Cubic Framer! I've gone in the reverse direction, from engineering to framing.

I'm very interested in learning more about object framing. I've enjoyed the projects I've done so far. Nothing like as advanced or diverse as your examples, mind! One of my customers enquired about potentially framing the top layer of her wedding cake, and I haven't a clue whether it's possible or where to start.

Moglet my reply about this was intended for you I do not know if I have been offensive, if I have my appologies. As a newcomer to the site, I was unaware of the reply to quote button, to which I have now addressed myself.

Have I been patronising in my tone, it certainly was not intended, a simple observation, if the means of making a transparent cover were available to the framer would it make the job of realising the clients aspirations simpler.

cubic framer · Post by **cubic framer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:41 pm

Roboframer wrote: But is this 'Framing'?

It's stuff framers can do, for sure. But so far, this one, and others, don't want to - you have capitalised on that and kudos to you for that.

Your description of the cake matches a very nice clock we have - I wouldn't say that that was 'framed'.

Still - I look forward to seeing how you do it - I wouldn't turn a job down that I could do, if I wanted to do it and if it was the best way.

One day I'll get a football signed all round - or something - I'll either bite the bullet or send them to someone like you who could do it with their eyes closed.

By the way (BTW) if you want to quote someone's post - just press the 'quote' box in their post and the reply form will come up - you can edit their post down to include the releveant bits as I have done with yours. Preview your post before submitting if in doubt.

BTW (again) how are the floods affecting you?

My roots are near to you - born & bred in Wrexham - large family on my Mother's side in the Newtown/Welshpool area. Lived in Market Drayton for a while.

Shropshire, & the 'Marches' - for me, is the most beautiful part of the world.

Robo framer,

there is much in this reply that I do not understand,however I have made myself familiar with the reply/quote mechaninism with your help.

I hope that I have not been impolite in some way, and for the moment goodnight .

realhotglass · Post by **realhotglass** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 10:17 pm

Welcome Cubic,

You and I have some common thoughts.
Glass cases are very underutilised in general to date, but slowly changing.

You are also a walker, as in fell / munrow ?
It's called bushwalking here, and that's what I do to keep things in perspective.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 10:28 pm

cubic framer wrote:
Robo framer,

there is much in this reply that I do not understand,however I have made myself familiar with the reply/quote mechaninism with your help.

I hope that I have not been impolite in some way, and for the moment goodnight .

Well I hope also that I have not given an impression that I feel you have been impolite - you have not, not at all.

All we are discusing is wood, glass and methods - objects - not people or emotions - in my local takeaway is a backlit picture of a waterfall, made to look like the water is moving - I hate it with a vengeance - I'm planning ways to smash it whilst making it look like a genuine accident.

Whoever made it is probably a really nice person!

Hey - not saying I hate display cases either!

All is cool!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 10:29 pm

Hi CF (hope you don't mind the abbreviation)

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier (busy with an evening consult). I understood just fine that you were answering my earlier post. This text-based cyberworld does take a bit of getting used to!

cubic framer wrote:...engineers make solutions fit problems, or is it the other way around.

This made me chuckle: I think we engineering types can be accused of both at different times! I hope that I'm found guilty of the former more often than the latter!

Thankyou for your reply. You already know about the engineering, but I also need to explain that I'm a novice framer (celibrating my second anniversary next month), so I'm very much on the steep part of the learning curve, especially when it comes to more advanced materials and techniques.

From your antique show example, you've answered my first concern, namely "will the cake last?" I'm ok on how to construct a plinth, but my inexperience means that I don't know enough about the materials and techniques required to construct the glass cover, or the relevant suppliers. I'd very much welcome any recommendations you could make.

Edited to add:

I echo your sentiment that with the right skills and materials, and with willing, we can much better meet our customers' wishes!

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 10:49 pm

Cubic,
I would like to add my welcome to you, too?
Your vast knowledge will be an asset to this forum, I'm sure!

Please don't worry about Robo's statement below:

Roboframer wrote:But is this 'Framing'?

Your description of the cake matches a very nice clock we have - I wouldn't say that that was 'framed'.

His definition of 'framed" is not necessarily the same as others and isn't necessarily right either.

(sorry John, I couldn't resist the opportunity)

IMHO 'framing' is a very broad term and can apply to virtually anything that is contained in any sort of presentation device.
Many times it is just not possible to 'frame' something to hang on a wall because we have this stuff called 'gravity'. We cannot do anything about 'gravity' so we just have to work with it instead of against it, especially with items such as the 'cake layer' mentioned. That's unless someone has an 'anti-gravity' machine for sale!

I went to a Vivian Kistler 'Double Sided Frames' seminar at the Sydney trade show last weekend and she used her famous expression 'I'm a framer, not a magician' quote when referring to 'gravity'.

We all need to etch this quote into our minds so that we don't tell customers that we can do something that is impossible, then discover when it's too late that it is impossible!

Post by **prospero** » Thu 26 Jul, 2007 11:07 pm

CF. Interesting you should mention a stuffed peacock as I actually stuffed a peacock once. I use to dabble in taxidermy.

I think the point Robo is making is, when does a frame become a display cabinet. I suppose the two things fulfill the same objective.

cubic framer · Post by **cubic framer** » Fri 27 Jul, 2007 10:32 am

realhotglass wrote:Welcome Cubic,

You and I have some common thoughts.
Glass cases are very underutilised in general to date, but slowly changing.

You are also a walker, as in fell / munrow ?
It's called bushwalking here, and that's what I do to keep things in perspective.

Hi realhotglass,

Walking first, have to keep priorities right, as a youth I was a mountaineer/rockclimber this was interrupted by 2 careers, I am now an exploratory walker with a tendency to tresspass. As I probably do not have enough years left to bag an impressive tropy list of summits, I enjoy designing circuit routes with a variety of focal points other than summits.

There are a number of reasons why framing and glass cases have failed to merge, it is this merger that can transform the craft of framing from Picture framing to Framing.

I cannot undertake to demonstrate or explain this with a quick fix, as this is my introductory post I am trying to lay out my credentials.

My road to Damascus occured in the 1980's but I was fortunate to view an extroadinary amount of Victorian three dimensional framing over the 3 decades prior.

My practising over the next 3 decades has made realise that the earlier lessons of observation are fading from view and may not be about for future framers to learn from.

I hope I will build up some continuity to this explanation in the course of answering the posts of others.