The Framers Forum

Last week we framed a x stitch for a new customer who normally sends them to Birmingham, where she used to live, for her son to take them to her 'old framer'.

We had to do it to match what she described as best as possible - mahogany with gold edge (yawn) denim blue single mount (barf)

But it had beads so we added a concealed spacer.

This week she is back - she has compared mine to his - mine is straight, his was crooked - the fabric rows and the beads.

I explained that the beads were not just crooked, they were pressed against the glass and had rolled over.













On her first visit I explained that we would lace her piece - she said yes, that is what her old framer always did.

When she brought this one in I took one look at the MDF backing and the overall depth of the frame - there was a little space left in the rebate.

That MDF was against the back of the needlework and if it was laced I'd eat my hat etc.

Did he actually say 'laced' or 'stretched'?

Oh, well - I'm sure he said laced.

OK - let's open it up then - won't take a sec. ...........






Just in case you can't see the obvious mistake - it's not made flush! Tssk tssk.


God did she spit venom!

I have never EVER opened a piece that was laced unless the customer did it themselves.

Major slapped wristies for the previous framer!!!

Is that 'packaging tape' lacing?

Seems some framers go out of their way to do a botsch job.

I mean - all (or most of) those bits of tape are neatly cut - not just torn - I bet it wouldn't have taken much longer to lace.

The one I did previous was about the same size - she paid MORE (just) for this carp!

Ignorance combined with out of sight, out of mind.

I once had a needlework in that was just uncannily perfectly square - it was double mounted.

The bottom mount had been placed over the needlework on its backing and the fabric pulled to line up with its bevel - it was then stapled through that bottom mount and the fabric and backing. The top mount was then ATGd over the bottom to conceal the staples.

Quite ingenious really!

looks like tesla tape.

to be honest the frame and mount colour chosen seem fairly routine and predictable, we certainly do a lot like that.

Ive always refrained from sending in other people's gaffes for a couple of reasons:

1. glass houses, stones and all that. What was acceptable a couple of years ago isn't today, for example.

2. customers are not too reliable in their recollections or admitting that they wanted a cheap job, or when, or where they had it done.

3. some customers do tend to blame framers for things they did themselves. Particularly stretching, lacing, etc.

4. often we are fixing something that someone else has already tried to "fix" or put right.

5. im always reluctant to pull apart someone elses work, or critiscise them in front of the customer. If they ask why something has gone pear shaped that they had done somewhere else I'll do my best to tell them, but as a rule I'll just try and sort it out if its not too much trouble, and hope to do a better job which (hopefully) might speak for itself.

This is exactly what happened in your case Robo (5), so you did the right thing. A good result: customer trusts your opinion, and you can justify what you charge by showing that you know what you are doing.

Did you get the re-framing job out of it for your time and trouble?

But mostly, its no 1. Nothing worse than one of your own skeletons tumbling out of a closet you forgot about

We DO lace all ours, as routine now, but it is a fairly recent thing. we used to ask customers to do it themselves, but often ended up seeing them bring back the likes of which Robo has just presented us with.

The tesla tape is a bit of a giveaway that it came out of a framers workshop - Had it been masking tape or duct tape, i'd say there is a 50-50 chance that the customer did it. Flexitabs? was it a ready made frame by any chance?

We seldom used to lace anything ourselves. John at Merlin made me see sense one day, when he pointed out that Barbara laces all their jobs, very quickly too, behind the counter. So i got to thinking, decided it was girls work, and delegated it to Tom* At first they took ages, but now its just a few minutes worth - certainly quicker and neater and more "proper" than letting the customer do it. And no risk of tape. Some people just wont pay for it, though. and take away a ready made frame, have a mount cut to fit, and produce very similar results to the one in the original post.


* i figured anyone who knew enough about tying a blood-knot tight enough to repair an air clamp on the wizard, ought to manage a passable bit of needlework. eg. you are a fisherman, lacing will be your job

re the original needlework- its a nice piece, and a lot of hard work. Someone ought to have taken that into consideration before bodging it. Hopefully they'll see it on here, and raise their game.

Too much to answer there Kev!

But to answer the gist - we'd never tell anyone their previous and preffered framer was a cowboy - they may have known him/her for years and actually be a friend.

It's just a case of knowing, without opening, what I'm going to see - I can tell by the backing board, the type of cord or wire and how it is attached and tied - the lack of a label or bumpers, the space left in the rebate - more - sometimes just the general look of a thing.

The thing was framed 4 months ago and as far as I am concerned was unacceptable to me about a year after I started up - I did worse than that before then - on good advice from .... never mind!

No I did not get a re-framing job - all that was required was to get it straight. But I ended up adding a spacer, as per my original job with her, a lacing charge and a fitting charge - should have been about £45 - but I called it £20 because I've won me a convert - she'll be back and we also sell the stuff she likes to stitch and she bought some kits, charts, fabric and shedloads of threads.

I said I'd need to know how it was mounted - it could be glued - that's how we got in to the 'he said he'd laced it' conversation - happens all the time and yes I always, where poss - open in front of the customer - so I can explain what I need to do to rectify with a visual aid - how does the customer know after they have left that I won't do a 'plumber' on them?

"Ohhhhh missus - it's a mess - reckon it's about 4 hours labour.

No way - let them see what I am up against and appreciate that I am prepared to add skill to theirs.

Stuff the framer that did it - he doesn't come into the equation - if she wants to kill him that's up to her - all I did was open the back of a frame and in front of her - I don't have to say "OMG that is a crap job" any fool can see it is - by the same token - if she wants me to put my professional opinion in B&W to show him - I'll do that too.

The aim of all this is to raise awareness, that's all - hopefully someone will see it and think 'OOPS' and raise their game - doing it right is not rocket surgery!

It was not a standard RMF size - I know from the woman's reaction and from what she told me on her first visit, that she has used this framer for a long time and trusts him

He is a cowboy.

I've always maintained that you can make stuff look just the same using bad methods and materials out of sight - but he failed to even do that.


I know from interviewing one of the very first GCFs that worked in a well respected and long established framers, with a lot of smaller outlets - that some framers still cook animal skin glue - under the FATG logo, for 'stretching' needlework.

I think I've used this forum for the reason it was intended - how not to do it.

PS - I really don't give one anyway!

I am all for showing a customer what sort of work they have paid for somewhere else, if I get the opportunity.
People sometime get a little pissed off, but when I explain what I will give them for their money, it re-inforces the fact that they need to come to me to get a better quality job.
You can tell people what you do inside the frame package until you are black in the face, but when you show them so they can see with their own eyes it makes all the difference and you will end up with a loyal customer, who tells their friends.

The big problem with poor quality framing is that from the outside it often looks presentable and many of the finer details like joints that look like they grew together, little or no overcuts in mats, etc, etc, are not obvious to the general public.
When you show them the inside, which in my opinion is even more important than the outside, and they see the really obviously shoddy materials and workmanship, they realise that it is crap and that you weren't just jerking their chain when you told them that there are huge differences between a good quality job and others.

Practical demo's will always be better than just plain old conversation. I use them as much as possible.

I'm currently replacing the glass on a football jersey, framed by a memorabilia company down here and inside, it is just unbelievably bad. I will post some photos next week.

Roboframer wrote:Quite ingenious really!

Considering that the original framer knows what he is doing, he also should know how inexcusable it is too!

Not your average framer wrote: Considering that the original framer knows what he is doing, he also should know how inexcusable it is too!

Customers first or only thoughts are presentation and it's a sad fact that the vast majority of framers (Jeremy Clarkson impression please) in the world - think the same.

OMG thats a classic!