Double sided mount with spacer.

[raymond]

I am a newbie to framing, I have just learnt how to cut a double sided mount successfully. For my next conquest I would like to learn to add a spacer
Between the two mounts. My question is how do I do this when the two mounts have been stuck together.

[David McCormack]

Hi Raymond, when you say doubled sided mount do you mean a double window-mount? If the mounts are stuck together I can't see how you can insert a spacer, you need to do that before you stick them together.

I may just have got what you mean... did you use the technique where you cut the mounts and glue the second mount to the first before cutting the second? This is a good way of doing it but if you want a spacer you will need to cut the mounts separately.

Are you framing a pastel or charcoal, hence the need for a spacer between the mounts?

[raymond]

I guess is it called a double window mount. One mount cut lightly bigger than the other. It is for framing photographs, not art work. I cut the bottom mount, taped the second mount to the back then cut the top mount. Thinking about it I so pose I should add the spacer in-between the two mounts then cut the top mount. Hope this makes sense.

[prospero]

Cut the top mount, but just lightly tack the second board in place in a couple of places. AT tape is good for this. Cut the second window as per usual. Then you should be able to gently prise the two mounts apart. Add the spacer and fix the whole lot back together.
You need to carefully locate the two mounts so as to keep the equal reveal. There are sneaky ways of doing this which I will expand on if prompted.

[raymond]

Thanks Prospero. Yes I should of thought of that. I'm all ears on the sneaky ways of relocating them back together accurately.

[Steve N]

Just cut two mounts blanks the same size, then cut the window in the top mount, then cut the window in the bottom mount, put the spacer between and stick the lot together KISS Keep It Simple

[raymond]

Cheers Steve. On the little information I have read on the subject. It has been advised to cut the top mount slightly smaller then stick them together. Not sure why the different sizes. Probably because the two blanks might be cut slightly out of alignment. Making the centres skew whiff. If both the blanks are cut accurately to the same size then there is no reason for them to be out of line.

[Jamesnkr]

I am somewhat confused, and am sure somebody will explain how I have completely misunderstood.

1. It has been advised to cut the top mount slightly smaller then stick them together. Not sure why the different sizes.

Surely this guarantees you mounts that don't match? (It certainly would on my machine, whereby you measure the size of the margin, not the window.)

2. I cut the bottom mount, taped the second mount to the back then cut the top mount.

Surely this leaves you with cut lines in the the bottom mount where you've cut out the top window.

[prospero]

The classic way to do double mounts (on a manual cutter) is to cut the bottom board smaller. This is so you are always cutting using the edge of the top mount as reference, thus ensuring the two register perfectly. Cutting two board the same size and cutting separately is a bit hit-and-miss as any slight discrepancy will show. On a small reveal - say 3mm, a 1mm error will stick out like a sore thumb.

The sneaky way of fitting two layers together again after they have been separated is to stick d/s tape around the window of the top mount, leaving the release paper on. Peel the ends of the tapes about an inch and fold inwards. The add a short tab of d/s near the top and peel. Place the two together and jiggle them into alignment. I find a scarp of mountboard pencil marked to the width of the reveal makes a handy gauge for this job. When it's right press on the board above where the tab is. The folded over release papers just lift the top board enough to stop the expose tape grabbing. Once you have the two tacked via the short tab is a simple job to pull the ends of the tapes around the window in turn and smooth them down.

Make sure you keep the two boards in the same orientation as they were cut.

[IFGL]

we cut the top mount then pva glue the second board to it, leaving the vacuum on so nothing moves, then cut the bottom mount, while the bottom mount is cutting the vacuum is sneakily drying the pva glue, by the time the bottom mount is cut, the glue is dry enough to be able to move and stick a ticket on it, it can then be married up with it's frame when someone has made it.

essentially the same as some of the other posts just on a different mount cutter.

[raymond]

Thank you all for taking the time and trouble getting back to me on this issue. So much to learn, so little time.

[Roboframer]

I have a CMC and with double mounts, unless the machine is cutting the outside as well as the apertures (which I have pretty much only ever done to see how well it does it) I always cut the bottom mount (ever so slightly) smaller than the top because - for one - if cut the exact same size, they have to be lined up perfectly otherwise you'll end up with something larger than the glass/undermount/backing.

[raymond]

A CMC. Now that is something to dream about. There is a lot more to this framing craft than meets the eye. I can see that I will be learning stuff for years to come.

Getting on to another framing subject Robo. When under pinning how far apart do you place the pins, how close to the back and front do you pin too?

[Jamesnkr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w008_wU8jU As ever, YouTube is your (and my) friend. I wish I'd thought to ask for any tips on this previously... Thank you!

Minigraf instructions say you should put the pins in one-third of the way from the outside, and one-quarter of the way from the inside. Add extras inbetween if the moulding is particularly wide; if using polymer moulding don't put them closer to the outside than half way as if you do it will cause the moulding to splay.

[Trinity]

? How do you cut your outsides then Robo.
I cut the outsides on the machine as well and two of the same size, stand them on end, line up the sides and stick them together. I know what you mean though about getting one part of the package out of thrue - foe me it's usually the undermount, plus the edge tape - oops!

[raymond]

Thanks Jamesnkr for the very useful information. It might explain why I am getting the odd frame splay out on the outer corners. Very helpful friendly _ bunch of people on this site.

[Steve N]

I stick my blanks together, then cut them on the CMC starting with the top, working down to the bottom one, most of the time I cut the bottom black about 1-2mm smaller then stick them together before cutting the mount

[raymond]

Cheers Steve. Looks like there are 150 ways to cut a double mount, who would of thought that ! Any more out there.

[IFGL]

Steve is cutting face up, we use a similar cutter and cut face down, just personal preference both cutters are cmc machines.

[Roboframer]

? How do you cut your outsides then Robo.

Same as Steve. Mount cutter produces a double (or triple) mount with nothing to line up - CMC or manual - but with manual you can't put all boards in at once.