Framing to hang in a bathroom

[Smithy]

Hi All,

Are there any techniques / precautions you'd take when a customer says a finished job will hang in their bathroom?

I realise that if it's a very steamy room, no amount of precautions would really affect the outcome. But if, say, there was a bit of moisture about from baths and showers, are there different things you'd do to enable the job to withstand this?

Must be all the rain about that's got me asking this question!

[prospero]

Warn them that it's not a good idea for anything non-replaceable and let them let on with it.

[theframer]

I have used ally frames for bathrooms before and for the back i put silver self adhesive foil to cover the whole back upto the edge of the frame, (what you use to safty back mirrors with) depending on the humidity of the bathroom this should hold up ok,
Well i have had no come backs on the ones i have done.
But i would not advise it on anything of value.
I would explain to the customer there is no garuntee
Dave

[Graysalchemy]

I thought you had to use a heavy duty plastic film for safety backing? it needs to conform to BSEN 12600 2B2.

[Roboframer]

Glass and metal are the only true barriers against water (droplets and vapour) so you could seal the glass etc with foil tape and back the frame with either glass or metal but the you'd run the risk of condensation being sealed in.

So I advise acrylic, which warms and cools at a more similar rate to the frame contents than glass or metal does. Front and back, sealed in - and I mean in addition to any mount-glass-undermount "sandwich" so that water cannot dribble down in to the rebate.

[Jamesnkr]

I should think that 'sealing' the frame would do more harm than good. Condensation *will* run down the glass and will therefore penetrate into the sandwich.

Good thick felt pads on the bottom to keep the frame away from the wall and to allow air to circulate behind it is a priority.

[Roboframer]

Domed plastic ones would be better, felt is absorbent.

I said sealing the frame as well as the sandwich - sealing the back and the front as well, so any moisture drops right off it.

Front and back, sealed in - and I mean in addition to any mount-glass-undermount "sandwich" so that water cannot dribble down in to the rebate.

[David McCormack]

How do you seal the front of a frame?

[Roboframer]

How do you seal a window?

[David McCormack]

I don't know how to seal the front of a frame, but I guess I'll work it out. Thanks.

[Roboframer]

With some form of sealant.

You could put a bead of silicone sealant in the rebate lip and seat the glass/acrylic on it, the back would not need to be as cosmetic so you could just run a bead over the edge of that.

It's an extra precaution, read Hugh Phibbs' ("Preservator) comments here. http://www.thegrumble.com/index.php?thr ... oom.70997/

All I'm saying is use acrylic and seal it as best as possible.

[Jamesnkr]

All I'm saying is use acrylic and seal it as best as possible.

All I'm saying is the more you seal it, the worse the problem will be. Personally, I would be more inclined to leave holes in the back of the frame to allow air to circulate within the frame.

[Graysalchemy]

I have a print in a 3500m mount in my bathroom at home. No special treatment and the print is fine, no water ingress, no cockling. Its a tiny bathroom constantly being used by all four of us every day.

[Jamesnkr]

I have a print in a 3500m mount

That's one big bathroom...

[Roboframer]

Well Hugh Phibbs, whose word is gospel on TFG, is on F Book, why not PM him? (I assume you read his comments in the link I gave)

Better still, put the holes in the back of the frame thing on TFG - I bet they could use a laugh

I also have several things in my bathroom - the worst thing that's happened (without taking them apart to inspect fully) is rusty V nails and framers points.

But someone asked what precautions could be taken.

[Graysalchemy]

I should have added just because nothing has gone wrong it doesn't mean that it couldn't.

[i-framer]

I have done quite a few for bathrooms (nothing valuable). Laminated and mounted to ACM board. And a fame to suit
This way there is no warping or bowing of backings boards from steam, and then print can easily be wiped over.

Last forever. I even dropped one into a bucket of water and left it for a hour to see what happened, and it was fine. No seepage into the print at all.

[Jamesnkr]

I also have several things in my bathroom - the worst thing that's happened (without taking them apart to inspect fully) is rusty V nails and framers points.

But someone asked what precautions could be taken.

Indeed they did ask. And the thread to which you link points out several times that you can never 'totally' seal something (or at least, not without NYAF's peltier effect setup (see the conservatory thread)). So if you cannot seal something completely, and that failure is likely to cause problems, then it must be the wrong approach. Hence I'd be *more* likely to recommend drilling holes than attempting to seal it completely.

But it's probably a subtlety that's lost on you.

In any event, the conclusion is: don't hang valuable art in a bathroom, anything else will be fine!

[Roboframer]

Sorry, I missed the "would be more likely to......" bit.

Maybe the first reply by Prospero is the best idea but this question pops up regularly, here and on TFG and sealing in some way is always recommended, by far better framers than me - plus, as you have seen, also by conservators.

Glass & metal although the best barriers, could trap condensation inside; acrylic, although in time, it is claimed, could allow water vapour in (I can't see that but it's what the man says) would not ... or would be far less likely to. A bit like a picture in a room with a window, it's screwed really, just that better materials will prolong its life - if that room is also a bathroom it's probably even more screwed and all we're offering is damage-limitation.

I would assume if of value then most customers would have the common not to hang artwork in such a place, and that's been my experience - and 8/10 of those people, when faced with the extra costs for something of little or no value, don't want to know and decide to just get it done normally (and for some framers it's normal to at least seal the glass etc sandwich anyway, which may or may not help) and take their chances.

[prospero]

Apart from the ongoing cycle of damp/dry/cold/warm which never did any artwork no good nohow, the most likely catastrophe is moisture condensing on the glass, running down and wicking up the inside. Sealing the glass to the frame will help. Silicone is one way but it's very ikky stuff and hard to get it to go where you want. You can get window sealing tapes which have a foam core which claim to be weatherproof. Add a moisture barrier to the back and this is about the best you can do without getting into the realms of fantasy.