The Framers Forum

Hi All,

Just thought I'd share this snippet with you all and see what anyone else would have done in the same situation.

Yesterday I was asked by a 'long time' client to frame 2 oil paintings. Nothing unusual there I hear you say, but firstly they were heavy oils on paper, and not good quality paper at that, it was rather thin. Secondly after spending some time explaining the differing methods of framing;

1. Cannot Stretch, because of the paper
2. Cannot use hot bed press, because of oil, it would melt
3. Cannot Vacumn press, because it would flatten the oils, and possibly melt
4. Cannot wet mount, (PVA or wallpaper paste, etc.) because of the paper being so thin
5. After determining the value, either monetary or sentimental, which was not very much either way, my only course of action, and thankfully due to the paper being 'FLAT' no wrinkles, etc, is to use Self Adhesive Board and stick it down, rub hently with tissue paper and roller where possible. The customer agreed on this.
6. As it was being laid flat, next we choose mounts, this didnt take long as the colurs screamed out for blue inner and white outer, with a honey pine frame to match her husband's den.
7. Next item was pricing, and when it came to adding the glass, she infomed me that she didnt want glass and was adamant, but still wanted the mounts. I informed her that framing with mounts needed glass, explained what would happen to unprotected mounts, etc. and that personally I was not prepared to do it.

After a brief standoff and trying to explain in detail, actually going to the trouble of throwing some dust around a mount sample from an old duster, she seemed reserved to the fact that mounting the 2 items was not an option (BY ME) and she was quite prepared to take it to someone who was prepared to do it as she required.

As I stated this client has been coming to us for many, many years, was I right to refuse this kind of mounting, and risk loosing her, forget about Fine Art trade Guild standards, they actually went out the window when she wanted the items stuck down, but I have my own standards to uphold that I have worked for many years to secure.

Luckily I keep in stock a 1 3/4" scooped moulding slip (Arqadia) and was able to give her an alternative to her mounts, by painting the scoop the same colour Blue of the mount, and use the honey pine frame. To be honest this is not the way she envisaged nor wanted her jobs doing, but was in the end quite happy to do it the way, that in the end of a long hard struggle we arrived at.

I would have risked loosing a long term client for my own reputation, would you?

Steven
SquareFrames

Without exception we will always do whatever the customer requests.

Normally we wouldn't offer advice unless asked. The only exception would be if we believed that the customer's piece might be damaged or devalued as a result of carrying out their requests, but even in this case we will always make it clear that we are only offering an opinion (arguably expert), and at the end of the day it is their property to do with as they wish.

This softly-softly approach allows the customer to pause and reevaluate their original ideas. If they persist in spite of our advice, we will ask them to sign for the work to be done (though I don't remember the last time it came to this).

Hi John,

I totally agree with you, without exception (in normal circumstances) we always do what the customer asks, but this is only after offering advice on how it should be framed, standard it should be framed to, etc., but asking us to mount 2 oil paintings on paper and not put glass with them, would have been folly, although it would not have damaged the artwork, but would have damaged both the mounts and my reputation, and with so many other framers (not including you, you are just a wee tad further away) within a 6 to 8 mile radius, and that doesnt include the garage framers, I personally wasnt prepared to take that risk, but thankfully in the end it was resolved and I retained both my sanity and reputation and alos the client. I always think of the old saying, a good job travels far, a bad job travels even further and a lot quicker.

By the way, this is the first time ever in all my years framing that I have refused to do a job as the customer had originally asked, I admit it must not have sounded good to her, but I think in the end she appreciated what I meant and has had the work done albeit to a compromise.

Steven
SquareFrames

Steven

I would have gone through the same process as you. At the end of the day there's no point in bodging an impossible job - the customer will always come back saying that they were relying on your expertise as a framer - you realy cant win. I had a very similar situation with an artist who insisted on painting in very thick oils on cartridge paper - and by thick i mean thick - he mixed the oils with wax to get them to bulk out - standing up to 2cm proud of the paper - he wanted a mount etc - I suspect I went through the same procedure ending up with similar result - I am convinced that the oils will disintergrate very quickly - and to be quite honest i was so disapointed with some of the compramises that i had taken that i allowed the frames to go without my normal company stickers on the back. Subsequently i purchased some oil boards for the artist - he didnt like them but loved the framing i had produced. The twist to this tale was that the artist sold these pictures through a very expensive London Gallery - they liked the framing as well - and placed orders for similar - in this case i pointed out to the gallery owner the pitfalls of the techniques involved - we didnt do any more on paper.

Some years ago i had a bit of an argument with a customer who complained that my work was too expensive - she was picking up work that had been priced - and she had a printed copy of the order - she was trying it on and i wasnt going to give in - so after extracting my payment from her she departed vowing very rudely and with plenty of expletives never to use my services again, i wasnt sorry to see her go. Yesterday the same lady rushes into my workshop - she desperatley needed some d rings and could i oblige - well i wasnt rude - but she didnt get the d rings. It goes against my nature not to be obliging - and i always regard anyone entering my business as a valued customer - but this time i couldnt help myself - i shant do it again - Honest.

Hi folks,

John's humble assistant here, I guess I should be backing him up on this one. But (risking neck here) I think a customer needs to be told when they are wrong.

As a recent customer of a bridal shop, I appreciated it when I was told that certain things that I wanted just couldn't be done.

So, I like to warn our customers that in my opinion they are wrong, but if they truely want a certain item framed in a certain way on their own heads be it.

They usually come round to my way of thinking though

Hi Steven


If you have a hot bed press you could heatseal the mounts. Have done this many times and it works very well. Bevel them first then heatseal placing the fallout back inplace on top of the heatseal tissue prior to inserting in the press - this way you heatseal the bevel also - wrap excess round back etc.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I tried this once, but with limited success.

Do you have any tips on how to prevent warping?

Hi Joe,

Like John I have tried this before, no good whatsoever, still doesnt stop the mounts from deteriorating and getting rather dirty and unsightly. I had even thought of a water and an oil based varnish....godness what a mess it made.

Steven

Hi John


I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean warping of the frame or the mount or both? Was either the problem you had?

Joe

Hi Joe,

I think John means, how do you stop the mounts from warping or cockling, as there is no glass to hold them flat?

Steven

Hi Steven

I see what you mean. Belt and braces approach, pva and double sided tape whole sandwich,mounts, mounted artwork and backing board (foamboard or mdf or corri cor as required)- keep all boards full size - press in hotbed as whole or press all edges individually to avoid contact with artwork.
Reversibility rating 0 !

Joe

Hi Joe,

Good information, but as these are original oils, and god forbid the artist ever became famous and collectable, any framing technique used has to be 'fully reversiable'. I know the client paid a large amount of money for these, but just had this idea of how they should be framed and mounted, so taking no chances of any future valuation or even litigation from an incorrect framing method, thankfully we came to an amicable conclusion. I will let you know what she says when she collects the pieces next week.

Steven