Any Gunnar Users?

[Spit]

Open Office (V2.3) Draw ..... yep export as WMF. Then via the clipboard in sp32, import metafile. Simple!

[Jared Davis CPF, GCF]

Well, I did this in less than an hour using Open Office - just a quick sketch out, no fine tuning of the points, export to WMF and cut. Some of the bits needed teasing out, but it worked. With a bit more experience with it will get better.

Guess who?

Mate, that's great! Thanks for the example & feedback. I think it might be time to play with a bit of open office and see what's possible!

Cheers,

Jared

[Spit]

Can't be that great, nobody's recognised him yet! It was just a rough drawing though.

[Jared Davis CPF, GCF]

Ozzie!

[Spit]

Correct!

I'll refine it when I have more time......

[Spit]

I'll tell you what I find really remarkable - if you follow the general outline of a face, it still looks somewhat like the person you meant it to be.... You'd think you would have to be more exact than that to get a likeness.

[Spit]

Oh BTW... Open office draw allows layers, so you can import a photograph into one layer, (posterised in two colours in another free photoshop style program called gimp - google it) and then trace the outline over the top in another layer (tip: lock the layer with the photo)

Maybe, when I'm sober (yes! there are at least 8 hours in a day when I am!) I'll do a tutorial for the oracle.

[Moglet]

If you have a reliable 240volt or less supply then this does not apply to you.

But if you have an unreliable 240v or less supply then read on..

Hope this info helps.

Ian, thanks for this particular gem of wisdom. It will be a while before I get a CMC, but it's very relevant to me. The power in my business premises ain't that great (subject to frequent brownouts), so the caveat about hooking the CMC up to the UPS is very welcome!

[Merlin]

Steve
The Draw in Open Officer... is that the same(ish) as draw in M$ Office 2003 please

[Spit]

I don't know if the m$ draw will do it - I don't use their products unless I have to!

Open Office is free to use, and is compatible with m$ formats

get it at http://www.openoffice.org/

[Moglet]

After the fair, and subsequently reading some of the bumph, I have a couple of questions about the Gunnar F1, and I'd really appreciate it if someone can help:

1. What's involved in switching between cutting 4-ply and 8-ply boards? (The lad on the stand showed me, but I can't remember... )

2. Can you bevel foamcore? If yes, to what depth?

3. How do you "swap" from cutting to embossing modes?

4. How common are undercuts on smaller cuts with lots of vertices (e.g. a small shamrock motif about an inch high)?

5. When cutting a double mount face up, are there problems with visible "score marks" on the lower board?

6. Are slightly "ragged" bevels on curved cuts a generic limitation on the machine, or do fresh blades help to improve the quality of curved cuts? Also, do sharp vertices tend to be a little "tufty"?

7. Did you consider a Valiani when evaluating the Gunnar? What swayed you towards the Gunnar?

If there's anything else that you really like about the machine that makes it easy to operate and maintain, I'd really appreciate any recommendations! Feel free to PM me on this one if ye prefer!

[Spit]

All these answers based on the F1: Other models may differ.

1. Change the blade, which sits in a tiny plastic carrier (you get several of these which are set to different depths). All it takes is to unscrew a thumbwheel, swap blades, screw it back up again. Then you tell the software what board thickness you're using and go.

2. Never tried it, but I presume so - max depth 3.5mm, I think.

3. This requires the change of a tool head, but not having one, I can't describe what it involves - but I think it's simple enough.

4. If properly calibrated, next to zero.

5. You can't avoid the score marks on any machine, as the blade has to break through the top mount - but they shouldn't be more than 0.3mm deep. They do act as a guideline when putting mounts together though.

6. Fresh blades help, as does reducing the speed of the cut, especially on tight curves (a couple of clicks on the software). Curves on my machine are fine. Correctly configured, tufty corners shouldn't be a problem unless you are trying to do too fine a point - if you're cutting really close to another cut, it may tear as the mountboard cannot take the stresses. Again, this would happen with any cutter, it is a limitation of the material itself.

7. Mine was available at the right time for me to buy.

Edit: What I really like about it is the v-grooves - no blade change required, just tell it what width the groove is, how far from the opening, and the depth of cut and away you go!

[Moglet]

Thanks for that, Steve. Spawned another ask: how does the F1 perform for a frontal cut on 8-ply?

[Spit]

I haven't needed to try that yet, will let you know when I do. Ormond might be able to tell you.

[Moglet]

'Nother one:

How frequently do CMC's in general need to be recalibrated?

[kev@frames]

in general almost never (wizard) unless you get a new PC or whatever. About 12 months since I last did mine.

[Moglet]

Thanks, Kev. Being the sole user, I very rarely need to tweak the Ultimat. It's good to know that I can expect similar from a CMC in the future.

[osgood]

Thanks for that, Steve. Spawned another ask: how does the F1 perform for a frontal cut on 8-ply?

I have only ever cut 8ply from the back and my Rapido cuts them perfectly. I can't think of any reason apart from when cutting a vee groove to cut 8ply from the front and I'm not keen on vee grooves in 8 ply so it's unlikely that I would be needing to do that.

Cutting 8ply requires the speed of cut to be slower and I have a 'profile' for that so once I tuned the profile for that, it is set forever.

5. When cutting a double mount face up, are there problems with visible "score marks" on the lower board?

I do this very rarely, but cut them separately so there are no score marks. I fit them together after they are cut. Just line them up by eye!

6. Are slightly "ragged" bevels on curved cuts a generic limitation on the machine, or do fresh blades help to improve the quality of curved cuts? Also, do sharp vertices tend to be a little "tufty"?

I don't get ragged bevels! On rare occasions on special shaped cuts there can be a tiny 'tuft' in a corner that I slice out by hand with a Gunnar blade.

[Jared Davis CPF, GCF]

Hi guys - Being an experienced Gunnar tech & sales guy for the last 11 years in Australia, please allow me to contribute to some questions made with some facts below -

1. What's involved in switching between cutting 4-ply and 8-ply boards? (The lad on the stand showed me, but I can't remember... ) Changing the pre-set bladeholder (for deeper blade depth) and selecting the new profile in the software (mouse click) . This entire process is tool-less, and should take about ten seconds for a slow user, and less than three seconds for an experienced user like myself.

2. Can you bevel foamcore? If yes, to what depth? I have successfully cut 5mm foamboard on a Gunnar F1, but I don't usually recommend it as it is a bit of a tight squeeze, and it is not easy setting the pressure "just right" to stop the board from being squished without doing a couple of test cuts. 3mm foamboard is easier & more popular which less issues.

3. How do you "swap" from cutting to embossing modes? It requires a tool (provided) and takes about 20 seconds to swap over during the mat cutting process. The matboard remains conveniently clamped as you do this, so there is no risk of accidental misalignment.

4. How common are undercuts on smaller cuts with lots of vertices (e.g. a small shamrock motif about an inch high)? Not common, if you have you overcuts set correctly?

5. When cutting a double mount face up, are there problems with visible "score marks" on the lower board? Yes. Both Gunnar & Valiani cut perform this deceptive “double mat in one process” trick. It is a fancy, jaw-dropping, but impractical tradeshow trick – and definitely requires the second layer of mat to act as the slip mat, thus leaving a score line. Yet another reason why this fancy method is only used by CMC salesmen at tradeshows, and not by real custom framers in real custom frame shops.

The main problem with this fancy system is this – “How do you know exactly where to apply the glue, when you haven’t cut the top opening?” Any custom framer knows that it is best to apply the glue as close as possible to the aperture edge, so that the mat layer doesn’t flange under the glass…. But if you “pre-glue” the board, and it is uncut, then the only “safe” place you can apply the ATG is on the outside edge of the mat, which is great for a fancy tradeshow demo, but impractical for a real custom frame job. There are no CMC owners (custom framers) I know of in Australia that use this feature – although regretfully some were deceived into thinking this would be the way they would use their machine when they were looking to buy one.

Don’t believe me – just think it through, and you will then understand the fallacy in the principle.

The other fallacy in this technique, is that it assumes you are cutting from the front, using two or more pre-sized boards, all cut to the same size.

Being a custom framer, it is far more practical to cut your multiple layered mats from the back (not the front) and use the Outside Cut feature to cut your mats to size at the same time as cutting the openings, and you can also have the benefit of using a slightly smaller mat for the 2nd, 3rd, etc layers if required.

This fancy “pre-glued” double mat system can be handy at times for some of the volume manufacturers (OEMS) as they use it for pre-glued full sheets to be sliced & diced into 10 x 8’s etc… but they make specific “glue templates” for production runs to show them exactly where to apply the glue before joining the boards and cutting them.

6. Are slightly "ragged" bevels on curved cuts a generic limitation on the machine, or do fresh blades help to improve the quality of curved cuts? Also, do sharp vertices tend to be a little "tufty"? Yes, fresh blades make a big difference. Depending on the design, some acute overcuts can be tufty - but easily avoided if you temporarily increase your overcuts in the software (approx. 5-10 seconds). Also, if it is an imported design from Corel Draw, the smoothness of an extremely tight curve is strongly influenced by the number of excessive control points you may have.

7. How does the F1 perform for a frontal cut on 8-ply? Just as it does from the back cut. No blade or head change required - just flip and cut. Cutting 8 Ply from the front of the mat is handy when you want to cut a v-groove or deboss a line as well. However, to get flawless, un-hooked results - you will need to make a different blade profile in the software for cutting 8ply from the front, to counter the different physical dynamics and avoid hooking - but this is a "once off" thing in the software. In fact Gunnar F1 is capable of cutting ALL brands of the "thickest" 8ply mats available - not just "some of them"... Not all brands of 8ply mat are the same thickness!

8. How frequently do you have to calibrate? Depends you your use & volume. But in general, calibration should be minimal with only one operator. It's when you get multiple "expert" operators that calibration becomes more frequent (smile). Most users find they calibrate more in the first two weeks, than they do in the next two years …

My recommendations -

1. Get samples of what you want to see, cut – and watch demos yourself – what one salesman will tell you is a “perfect cut with no hook” on an 8 ply mat may be totally different to what you consider to be “commercially acceptable”.

2. Do not accept excuses – just look for consistent results. If possible, it is best to see the sample you want, cut on the machine you want to buy first hand as well – just in case they try to cut the sample on a scaled down mini “demo” CMC, which doesn’t have as much sloppiness or play as a full sized version.

3. Also keep in mind, when you buy a TV day one out of the box, regardless of the brand, it will work for the first time. It’s not until you get to 10 years down the track that some brands of TV’s (usually more expensive) seem to have a much longer lifespan than others, who seem to die and fall by the wayside, not being able to go the distance. This same universal consumer law applies equally to CMC’s. The cheapest price doesn’t always mean the “best value” … and at the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

4. Ask questions from the dealers & expect answers, and look at past history and experience as to what you can expect in the future.

5. As you are probably aware, anyone you ask on any forum like this will always tell you "we love our CMC" and give you a slightly biased & ignorant response, because in all honesty, if you come from the traditional method of cutting mats by hand, even the worst CMC in the world will still make a huge different to your business. If you spend over 10,000 pounds on buying something, anything, you are never going to allow yourself to emotionally "feel bad" about it or regret it, you will just put the blinders on and happily travel in bliss... Fortunately you are not in this situation yet... so you can exercise discernment and suspicion, and find out for yourself.

6. Finally - take your time - there is no rush to make a decision "now" - even if the salesman says "I've got a deal for you if you go with it now..."... this is just a typical "car salesman's" trick limit you from learning the truth - any "deals" will always be there for you when you are ready to make your decision. If you expect to "live" with this decision for a long time, then get the answers you need first before buying.

Cheers,

Jared Davis CPF GCF

[Moglet]

Hi Jared!

Thankyou so much for your very comprehensive and informative reply to my post! I hope that other members will find it as incredibly useful as I am. It's an excellent critique of CMC's in general, and the Gunnar specifics are very clear.

The Spring Fair was my first opportunity to get 'up close and personal' with the outputs from the leading CMC's, and I was a tad disappointed with what I saw from a 'quality of finish' perspective.

Couple of specifics:

With regard to the 'raggy bevels,' I observed them on mats cut by Valiani, Wizard, and Gunnar, but was making mental allowances for blade wear (and occasional 'node overload') on the demos. I'm very pleased to hear that I was right to do so!

Both Gunnar & Valiani cut perform this deceptive “double mat in one process” trick. It is a fancy, jaw-dropping, but impractical tradeshow trick .... this fancy method is only used by CMC salesmen at tradeshows. There are no CMC owners (custom framers) I know of in Australia that use this feature – although regretfully some were deceived into thinking this would be the way they would use their machine when they were looking to buy one.

Now this is a revelation to me, as the "two-in-one" technique has been heavily pushed in my dialogues with vendors to date. I'm disappointed that it's not practical, as I was hoping to exploit such features. I really appreciate the candour of your response, Jared.

... it is far more practical to cut your multiple layered mats from the back (not the front) and use the Outside Cut feature to cut your mats to size at the same time as cutting the openings.

Would I be correct to assume, Jared, that the "outside cut" is performed by using the regular bevelling blade in "reverse bevel" mode?

----

At the Gunnar stand at the Fair, I had the pleasure of seeing some of your fabulous work 'in the flesh,' Jared. It looks great in cyberspace, but absolutely stunning in real world: your Jack Sparrow piece is one of only three pieces that I can't get out of my head since the show!

Thanks again, Jared, for the time you have given to reply to my queries, and for the invaluable general CMC advice you have given us: comprehensive, articulate, informative, unbiased, and consummately professional!