Page 1 of 1

Wallbuddies

Posted: Thu 14 Oct, 2004 6:52 pm
by Merlin
At long last, some good news.

According to the rep, as seen today, EURO MOULDINGS have ordered Wallbuddies and are intending to add them to their existing framing (picture hanging) accessories.

For those who do not know what these are then have a look at

www.wallbuddies.com

and cursor down to the 'Why use wallbuddies' on the left hand side, this will take you to a picture.

If you still are not sure then go to the American Picture forum

www.thegrumble.com

and do a search for 'wallbuddies' and see what they think about them.

What made me take a closer look at other hanging systems, was an article on the grumble about the actual weight hanging on a single screw/nail fixed into the wall. Approx 10 times the weight of the picture. Please do not say 'But the breaking strain of my cord is 300 lbs'. That is a direct pull. If the cord is bent over a hook/nail/screw then the breaking strain is dramatically reduced.

Some people may just smile at this, but just have a look around and note how many of your own and definately your customers pictures are actually hung by one point. Plus, how many times have you been asked for cord to hang a mirror.

OK before you all shout at me for going on about these things, I know that there are many more hanging fixtures around. I will certainly be offering these to customers for anything over a 16" x 21" frame.

Posted: Fri 15 Oct, 2004 7:08 am
by markw
Merlin framers - you posted 12th March that Euro were going to stock this item - they dont hang around do they? I started using those little bendy arm things on my photoframes - i have to replace them on stock frames almost weekly because people twist them out and break them - Wallbuddies do look as if they could provide a secure hanging system but i sometimes despair at how thick people can be when they are confronted with something slightly different.
I like the fact that customers dont hang pictures properly - working in a market town i find that the most common hanging medium is baler twine - although thats on the decline now we have big bales. Fishing line is popular - shoelaces - parcel string - fence wire wrapped around nails that protrude through the front of the frame - thin cotton - electric light flex. they all come crashing down - and end up in my workshop for glass replacement and general refurbishment - usually with the suggestion that they look at all the frames they own and replace the baler twine from time to time.
Personally i use strap hangers on very large frames and supply the neccesary wall fixings with detailed instructions (of how to thread the baler twine between them) D rings on most of the other frames with plastic covered stainless steel wire. And on large frames with thin moulding those american hangers with a lip on the inside. I used to rivet d rings on to the backing board but its a no no with corricor. I take hanging very seriously and will try wallbuddies - I like the fact that they position the frame flat against the wall - but am aware that in a place where many of the older houses just dont have flat walls this could present a problem.

Posted: Thu 21 Oct, 2004 2:45 pm
by Guest
Actually, WallBuddies maintain an air gap of about 1/8" from the wall, and that is good. Every frame should have some air gap, to allow air to circulate up and down the wall behind the frame.

Here's a tip for WallBuddies users:

Some customers take one peek at that strange looking hardware, and decide that it's too complicated for them to deal with -- they'll prefer the same old wire, thankyouverymuch...

Tell customers that WallBuddies require no measuring, and do this: Bend up the center point on each side's sawtooth, so that it slightly scratches the wall when the frame is held up against it. Tell customers to so mark the wall, and place the wall hooks where the scratch-marks are.

And here's another bit for WallBuddies: Although they cost more than four times the price of wire & screweyes, they actually have a lower INSTALLED cost, by virtue of their labor savings. In my shop labor goes for $1 per minute. Saving 2 minutes by eliminating the tying of wire ends saves more than the cost difference.

Customers perceive WallBuddies to be a premium hanging system, and they're pleased to get them at no added charge. Meanwhile, I provide a better hanging system for my frames, and save save money in the bargain.

What a deal.

Posted: Thu 21 Oct, 2004 2:51 pm
by James Miller
Sorry, but I just got a new computer and didn't realize I hadn't been

logged in automatically.

That was my WallBuddies post. Anonymity isn't my style.

From Ohio, #1 swing state in the upcoming election,
Jim

Posted: Thu 21 Oct, 2004 8:23 pm
by Merlin
Jim, Thankyou for that tip about bending over one of the points.
Another one, courtesy of you guys across the pond.
Supply a template - free of charge. We all have mountboard (matboard) left over from other jobs.
Place two holes in the template, the width of the centre point of the wallbuddies and the same distance down from the top edge of the board.
This way the customer can rest a spirit level onto this edge and once level just place a pencil mark through the holes..
Good customer relationship goes a long way....

Posted: Thu 21 Oct, 2004 11:03 pm
by James Miller
John:

Yes, the scrap-board template works nicely. I've done that as well, but it's quicker to bend up the points.

And for those customers who don't know which end of the yardstick to read, the extra piece of board with holes in it is just another complication. I know it seems odd to framers, who work with measuring devices all day long, but those people really do exist -- although I can't imagine how they function.

WallBuddies have been the standard hanging hardware in my shop for over three years now. We have a "Thank You" pamphlet to send with each order, which includes hanging & handling suggestions, warranty, and detailed instructions for hanging by wire, WallBuddies, or D-rings.

We still offer all kinds of hardware, but nearly all of our customers agree that WallBuddies are the best for general purposes.

Posted: Fri 22 Oct, 2004 9:35 am
by John
And here's another bit for WallBuddies: Although they cost more than four times the price of wire & screweyes, they actually have a lower INSTALLED cost, by virtue of their labor savings. In my shop labor goes for $1 per minute. Saving 2 minutes by eliminating the tying of wire ends saves more than the cost difference.
Jim,

Perhaps, when I see Wallbuddies, I will be totally won over and banish D-rings forever. But I don't think that I would be totally convinced by your argument on price saving. It seems to me that the cost price of Wallbuddies is being compared with the retail price of the workshop time to string in the normal way. If you are charging $1 per minute for workshop time, presumably the cost to you for that workshop time would be somewhat less ($0.50?)

How about (cost of D-rings + cost of fitting time) v (cost of Wallbuddies + cost of fitting time)?

We hardly ever use wire for picture hanging, but never thought of it as particularly time consuming (maybe we are not doing it right, of course :) ) I think that I would be having a quiet word in the ear of any of my staff who were taking more than two minutes to attach D-rings and cord.

Posted: Fri 22 Oct, 2004 5:49 pm
by Merlin
Having started the wallbuddies saga some 18 months ago after seeing them in the states and really just how useful they are. I will say that I will not stop using D rings.

We never use wire, coated or otherwise down here in the SW. The climate and old damp cottages combined with the disimiliar metal problems ( D rings and wire that is) plus the number of corroded or rusty wires that we have replaced over the past 7 years have shown that it can be a high maintenance system.

OK if I wanted to rip off the customers and have them return on a regular basis to replace broken hanging systems. Yet really it does not do my credibility or professionalism any good.

It remains to be seen exactly what price EURO MOULDING will put on these items - a stab suggestion by them was about £1.50 per pair.

As in my earlier posting, I will be offering them for anything over a 16 x 20 (inches that is). It then is a customer choice.

Jim, I will echo what John (Admin) says. It will be interesting to see what figures you have for timing cost with D rings v Wallbuddies.

Posted: Tue 26 Oct, 2004 3:28 pm
by James Miller
John wrote:
In my business, everything except profit is counted as cost, but I include profit in the labor price because each minute of shop time represents $1 of revenue. That is, wasted time represents lost profit, and saved time represents added profit, and it all should be counted in measures of time spent.

You are welcome to question my time study, and my cost-of-time calculations. Those factors, even if compared on the identical basis, probably wouldn't be the same for any two framers, and certainly not for any two framing businesses. Regardless of the variances, I encourage the exercise.

The previous point was that in my business, WallBuddies represent a savings of installation time that exceeds the added cost of the better materials. However, even if WallBuddies had a slightly higher installed cost, I would use them anyway, because they are perceived by my customers to be the all-around best hanging system -- and I agree with them.

Our businesses are different. For one example, you use cord and we use stainless steel wire. I've never installed cord on a picture frame, but I imagine it would take less time to tie cord than wire. Tying stainless steel wire -- securely, so that the knots are tight and do not stretch under normal tension -- takes about 2-1/2 minutes per frame in my back room. (Note that this measure of time also includes threading onto the wire two packaged wall hooks and two small pieces of clear plastic tubing, which prevent the very sharp ends of the wire strands from causing injury to a customer's fingers, or abrasions to the wall.) Pre-drilling two holes and installing screweyes takes about 1-1/2 minutes per frame. In actual time studies, the total installation time varied from 3-1/2 minutes to about 5 minutes, depending mostly on the framer's manual skills.

In my comparisons, D-rings and wire required about 30 seconds less time than screweyes and wire. D-rings have the advantage in other ways, but cost more than screweyes, and do not have the advantages of WallBuddies.

D-rings alone take far less time than installing WallBuddies. Some framers here use that method, but it makes the frame more difficult to hang, and I feel that invites customers to install their own string or wire incorrectly. Not in my shop.

I heard of a production framer that installs WallBuddies using a pneumatic stapler instead of screws, but so far, I'm not confident in my results that way. If & when that can be accomplished, it would surely be faster than any method involving screws. I have an aversion to using staples in hanging hardware, knowing how they perform in holding wire. But WallBuddies held by four or six staples per side would suffer less stress than wire or cord held by two or three staples per side. There would be more staples, at different angles, over a wider area of the wood. From the standpoint of physics, stapled WallBuddies might be quite good.

Posted: Tue 26 Oct, 2004 7:14 pm
by John
However, even if WallBuddies had a slightly higher installed cost, I would use them anyway, because they are perceived by my customers to be the all-around best hanging system -- and I agree with them.
Any product that can raise this level of passion in a picture framer must surely be worth a second look. :)

I will definitely be giving these a try, if ever I find a source.

Posted: Tue 26 Oct, 2004 8:47 pm
by Merlin
John
As soon as I get the nod from EURO MOULDINGS that they have them actually in hand. Then I can assure you all I will be shouting loud on here.
In the mean time I have sent an email to the MD of Wallbuddies asking if he would be so kind as to send some complimentary wallbuddies...
Cheeky I know.. One can only hope

Posted: Tue 26 Oct, 2004 10:20 pm
by James Miller
Merlin Framers wrote:John
As soon as I get the nod from EURO MOULDINGS that they have them actually in hand. Then I can assure you all I will be shouting loud on here.
In the mean time I have sent an email to the MD of Wallbuddies asking if he would be so kind as to send some complimentary wallbuddies...
Cheeky I know.. One can only hope
WallBuddies are made by a little company called "Picture Perfect" in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Darrell Keller is the President, and he's in the middle of everything the company does. He exhibits at most of our major trade shows.

I've met him several times and found him to be an interesting and likeable fellow. Especially innovative & creative -- as one might guess of the WallBuddies creator. contact him through his web site: www.wallbuddies.com, and please tell him I said "Hello".

WALLBUDDIES MAKE YOU A HAPPIER FRAMER!

Posted: Sun 31 Oct, 2004 11:31 pm
by Hannu Nyström
We've been using Wallbuddies here for years and I thought I've learned everything possible about them. Jim's idea about bending up the center point is good (I think this idea has come up in the US Grumble earlier but I've never tried it for some reason) and I'll give it a real test next week when we install twenty big mirrors, sized 100x140cm+frame. We already installed 10 mirrors back in July and did it by measuring from the frame corner.

One more security hanging tip here. Addition to Wallbuddies, we use 3-6cm strips of 3M Dual Lock fasteners (no.3540 heavy duty) to keep lower corners securely on the wall. The frame is easy to uninstall if you know the right technique but it's still secure. Dual Lock is very strong, do not use too long strips since it will be hard to open in case someone needs to take it off the wall.

Merlin John,
why don't you order Wallbuddies directly from Darrel? We constantly team up with several framers and group purchase things we can't get from our suppliers. AND the price is lower too!
James Miller wrote: From Ohio, #1 swing state in the upcoming election,
Jim
Jim,
nice to see you here too! I thought Ohio is more into Rock'n Roll :lol:

Hannu