The Framers Forum

Couple come in off the street at 4.30 today(we close at 5)with a frame from ART and an open print from a local publisher. Wanted a mount and wanted it now. Usually give discount if customer taking mount away to put everything together themselves, but these are done at our convenience. Explained I would have to take a member of staff off another job for someone prepared to wait for their work and they would have to pay the full price. A bit of humming and hawing and going out to check on the car(probably parked on the zigzags) on the husband's part. Agreed to pay full price. Thought it must be for a present to be given tonight. No.... just for themselves and wanted it up on the wall for the weekend.

Now I'm wondering if I should be giving a discount at all. What does everyone else do?

We have a “fitting” charge which includes cleaning glass, assembling the package, stringing the wire, applying the dust cover, etc., that is separate from the cost of materials such as mat, moulding, backing, glass, etc., each of which generates its own distinct charge.

If someone simply requests a mat, we will often try to cut it while they wait if we can, but there is seldom a discount (especially if they are demanding or acting like a jerk).

Good to see you Bill, our labour is inclusive in each of the elements, we shouldn't really discount it should we? cutting a mount for a custom framing job takes the same time as cutting one for a customer to take away... the only difference is we supply the ready-made ones without a barrier board (undermount) - perhaps we should just take the value of this off the cost.

Bill Henry wrote:We have a “fitting” charge which includes cleaning glass, assembling the package, stringing the wire, applying the dust cover, etc., that is separate from the cost of materials such as mat, moulding, backing, glass, etc., each of which generates its own distinct charge.

If someone simply requests a mat, we will often try to cut it while they wait if we can, but there is seldom a discount (especially if they are demanding or acting like a jerk).

If they just want a mount (mat) to go into their Ikea etc frame then, if they can choose the colour in about 2 minutes, I'll do it at my normal charge.

If they take longer I'll increase the price, up to 100% depending on just how long they take. My pricing software can be pretty evil!

I don't mind taking time to choose mount colours if it's a complete frame job - or maybe even if it's a mount replacement job - as there will be a fitting charge and I'll also get a shot at upgrading the glass, backing; even the frame!!

My interpretation of a discount is to reward a client who gives you a volume of work such that you can reduce you costs (labor and or material) either on a case by case review or on an annual basis.

In this case "a time" ONE mount being cut does not constitute a volume order discount nor consideration of an annual commitment discount.

Grahame Case wrote: cutting a mount for a custom framing job takes the same time as cutting one for a customer to take away... the only difference is we supply the ready-made ones without a barrier board (undermount) - perhaps we should just take the value of this off the cost.

dont worry Grahame - with a CMC you'll soon be in "cardboard hell" and you'll gladly throw in an undermount with many sizes of ready mades specially on 10x8 mounts, with all the dropout from the 12x10 to fit 10x8s

Didn't you see that four foot high pile of "nearly 10x8"s teetering over your head at my place
lol

I always think that discounts come straight out of my pocket so unless I have a really good reason to give one - it doesn't happen. Why establish a pricing system based upon profit margins - then undermine it by discounting??

Discounts are used as a part of our "marketing" strategy

Ie : Advertised Discounts to increse business (Spring sale etc)

To reward a loyal customer

To encourage repeat business

For Bulk Orders

I dont think that your customer fitted into any of the above categories.

Stephen

Thanks for everyone's input. I think we now realise we are in a minority and are too generous for our own or the business's good. Not sure I can be as gallus (see quote and link) as Robo, adding on for PITA customers, but who knows. As of now anyone wanting just a mount pays full whack.

incidentally, we charge £8.70 for a 40 x 50cm Conservation Quality (Bainbridge) mount, including undermount,

Mary

( GALLUS
(ga-luss) Dialect, chiefly Scot. ~adj. 1, self-confident, daring; cheeky. 2. stylish, impressive (" See him, he's pure gallus, by the way") 3. Orig. derogatory, meaning wild; a rascal; deserving to be hanged ( from the gallows).

Scots Dialect Terms[/url]

We would charge Stg£ 14.32 (Vat 17.5%)
EURO 20.50 (Vat 21%)

This is for a conservatiom board from Daler-Rowney or Colourmount
I use the same quality board for our undermount
Fitting is included in this price - I dont have a non-fitted price

stephen

conservation

Mary wrote:Scots Dialect Terms

Like these! Especially definition #3 for a Sassenach...

Mary Case GCF wrote:Explained I would have to take a member of staff off another job for someone prepared to wait for their work and they would have to pay the full price.

Mary,
I would never, never divulge to a customer that they would 'have to pay full price' under those circumstances. I'm assuming by this that you also told them that normally they would get a discount on normal price if they weren't in a hurry. This is also info that I would never divulge to a customer.

I tell customers as little about how I price things as possible. Only stuff that it is vital for them to know!
Customers don't care if us framers make a living or a loss or how we price stuff. They only care about what they have to pay!

Hi Ormond
Thanks for your feedback. It's a moot point now as I have taken on board all the comments on this subject and have decided not to discount, but I think Scottish customers must be different from Australian ones in their spending habits. My customers love a bargain and some are always looking for a cheaper way to do things. We have to compete with Ikea here. If I hadn't offered a discount for just cutting a mount, I may have lost some jobs. You would probably say that these were customers not worth having, but at the time customers were hard to find and I was trying to establish myself. There are a lot of framers in Edinburgh, though many have bitten the dust in recent years. Then it kind of got to be a habit with me. Talking to people on the forum has given me the confidence to say to myself that my work deserves full price. Today was the first day of the new regime and I found that people still gave me the business at the higher price. On a different matter, I have always been reticent at asking for money up front. Now I am finding I can do it , few people have a problem with it and cash flow is much better.

Good for you Mary!
I like the way you are thinking and I'm so glad it's working for you.
Many people who are new to the business start out like you and some continue that way forever.

No, Aussie customers are exactly like Scottish ones!

Don't compete with Ikea, better them!

The important thing is not to think like a consumer and have confidence that you know much more than the consumer does about framing and business!

I have always found that the better off the customer - the more of a bargain they will try and get. The other factor here in the Cotswolds is that many of my customers are farmers - as far as they are concerned nothing is the price you quote - I have one customer who I have seen in the local pub haggle over the price of a pint - and win.

I suppose the confidence factor is the ability to sell - I don't mind someone asking for a discount - and I am not afraid to tell them why they're not getting it. For the local farmers its a game - so I just take them on at their game. POS - in my case Estlite seemed to be the turning point, they seem to take the fact thats its been worked out on a computer as gospel.

I have always found that the better off the customer - the more of a bargain they will try and get.

I agree. We call them the"fur coat and nae knickers "brigade. Expensive houses, but unwilling to spend on the basics.

POS - in my case Estlite seemed to be the turning point, they seem to take the fact thats its been worked out on a computer as gospel.

Estlite did the same for us. We introduced it and increased our prices slightly at the same time and no-one batted an eyelid. I used to get quibbling and "do you do a discount for cash" all the time when I worked it out with a pencil.
Guy paid for a £380 framing job yesterday in £20 notes with no hesitation. (He still had 3 or 4 hundred in his hand) I can tell you that was in the bank next door's express pay-in 5 minutes after he left the shop!

Has any one noticed I've got the hang of quotes now?

markw wrote:I have always found that the better off the customer - the more of a bargain they will try and get.

And that's the reason they are better off! An ex of mine had parents who were multi-millionaires. Travelling was their main hobby, and no matter how much they might want to visit a particular place at a particular time, if they couldn't get a "last minute booking" discounted package deal they'd go somewhere else instead! To me, they were unreal. My brother's the same: every penny's a prisoner! Sad thing is that - for all their filthy lucre - neither my ex's parents nor my brother seem to be happy people...

MarkW wrote:I suppose the confidence factor is the ability to sell

Ain't that the truth, Mark! I'm getting more confident as time goes by (particularly since joining the Forum - thanks people!). My average ticket price has gone up in direct proportion. Also, I find it easier and easier to fend off requests for discounts.

I have always noticed that those who can least afford it will pay up easily, no problem.

Tight wads are just that - tight - and tight about everything they buy and yes loads of money does not guarantee happiness, but it helps if used in the right direction

Foxy