The Framers Forum

Hi All.....
Newbie here.

I am in the market for an undepinner - preferable second-hand and that can definitely handle oak! I am currently using an Inmes IM3 which is fine for low volume softwood frames however I'm being asked more and more for oak frames which this machine cannot handle.

Does anyone have any advice/opinion on what I should go for? Given the low volume at the moment, manual machines would seem to make more sense. And, from what I can see, have a rebate clamp of some description

Thanks in advance

Regards

T

Which make of wedges are you using? If it's Inmes wedges, you might be well advised to try some better quality wedges, before you start blaming the underpinner. I've not had very good experience of Inmes wedges. I use a Cassesse CS-88 and to be honest I'm not much of a fan of the Cassesse wedges either. I refill my empty wedge cartridges with Alphamacchine universal wedges....What a difference, much better results.

I would try some Alphamacchine hard wood wedges, before you decide that another machine is going to make all the difference and it may save you spending more money and deciding that it did not make the difference that you wanted. At the end of the day, the best underpinner for oak is going to be a good quality pneumatic underpinner, which does not necessarily fit everyone's available financial resources.

Hi T and welcome to the FF

You may want to consider a second hand CS89. Mine copes with Oak and Ash with no problem. This specific pneumatic machine has a rebate clamp and as Mark said a good quality pneumatic is the best underpinner for hardwood. Changing the wedges from softwood to hardwood is a doddle and a second hand one should not break the bank.

Apart from a manual Pistorius that I could not get rid of quick enough, I have only ever used Cassese pneumatic underpinners with total success.

Peter.

Thanks you for the advice.
I hadn't considered a change of wedge manufacturer!

Thanks again

Regards

T

Inmes are not consider to be an unreasonable brand of machine, so it's best to try another brand of wedges, before taking drastic measure. Personally, I don't think Inmes wedges are much good, I tried them myself and don't like them at all. I've also tried Cassesse wedges and there is a pressed in crease in both the 12mm and the 15mm wedges, which is a weak place, where the wedge tends to bend if you need to apply extra force, such as with a hard oak moulding.

Although my machine is a Cassesse, I refill the Cassesse cartridges with Alfamacchine wedges and personally find these to perform so much better. They do cost more, but I think that they are worth the extra. It is worth mentioning that joining oak on a manual underpinner is often not the easiest thing to do and different framers have their own techniques to help with this. There are plenty of previous threads on this subject, which can be found on this forum using the search facility.

Deeper oak mouldings are a particular difficulty, not only is oak one of the hardest woods, but also a piece of oak with a difficult grain pattern in the wood can deflect the position of the wedge, sometimes with dire results. You can not always beat every problem, even when using a pneumatic underpinner. You just have to accept the fact that some things can go wrong, if you are unlucky. Fortunately most of the time, everything is o.k., but there can be a bit of a learning curve, when you first start using oak. Really deep oak mouldings are often side pinned, because you usually cannot insert wedges very deeply into oak.

You may still need to get a higher spec underpinner, but try some of the workaround tips first, before spending money un-necessarily. My first underpinner was a Cassesse CS-79, which is pretty basic and does not have a rebate clamp, but I was able to join oak with it and the results were of professional quality. I hope this helps.

Hi
I have tried some Alphamacchine hard wood wedges and they seem to do the job!

Thanks for the advice.

Cheers

T

I think that you will find that you have avoided the untimely and at this time unnecessary cost of a new underpinner and that you will manage quite well with this existing underpinner until a more appropriate time when your business has grown to a level when you may feel you want to invest in something more state of the art, if you then deem it necessary. I hope you will do well in your business. Best wishes.