Hello everyone, I have been following the topics here for a little while now, but this is my first writing anything.
I am fairly new to framing ( last September), based in Co. Cavan and so far so good. My biggest problem seems to be one that a lot of people have - just how much to charge, but I will have to work at that one.
Anyway, I need some help and advice and hope you can provide it.
I was given some 'metal things' to frame. To me they look like tuning forks, but I believe they are for repairing the grass during golf - anyone know what I mean? You can see I don't play a lot of golf!!!
I have 19 of them to frame. The only request from the customer is he wants 'something to hang on the wall' and that they are not damaged.
I could stick them down I suppose, but it would have to be reversible.
Anyone got any advice?
Also, any suggestions on how much to charge for stretching a canvas, 20 x 24?
Many thanks, Anne
Hello and I need help!
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pieinthesky
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Weston Super Frames
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Hi Anne
I would probably attach them using a thin clear fishing line - very cheap and wont really cause any damage. I presume you will be mounting them onto a backing card or cloth so you will be able to make a couple of small holes hidden in behind each one to thread and secure the fishing line. you may then have to frame them in a box frame depending on there depth.
On the canvas you didnt say wheter you are framing it or not - if you are framing it you will need a narrower stretcher or if you are intending to wrap the canvas you will need a deeper stretcher. As a guide we would charge £14.50 for the narrower and £22.50 for the wider.
Hope this helps
Weston Super Frames
I would probably attach them using a thin clear fishing line - very cheap and wont really cause any damage. I presume you will be mounting them onto a backing card or cloth so you will be able to make a couple of small holes hidden in behind each one to thread and secure the fishing line. you may then have to frame them in a box frame depending on there depth.
On the canvas you didnt say wheter you are framing it or not - if you are framing it you will need a narrower stretcher or if you are intending to wrap the canvas you will need a deeper stretcher. As a guide we would charge £14.50 for the narrower and £22.50 for the wider.
Hope this helps
Weston Super Frames
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fionnuala
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fionnuala
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prospero
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Hi and Welcome Anne. 
The things people want hanging on their walls..
These implements should be fairly robust so they hardly need to be under glass. I think they would look very presentable fixed to a fabric covered (green dralon? padded?) board with a frame to suit.
As for pricing... My advice to newbies is usually think of what you would consider a reasonable charge and multiply by three.
Maybe that sounds a bit silly, but remember you are in it to make a profit.
Stretching a 20x24 canvas?
12.50 + cost of bars+vat (as long as no complications.)
The things people want hanging on their walls..
These implements should be fairly robust so they hardly need to be under glass. I think they would look very presentable fixed to a fabric covered (green dralon? padded?) board with a frame to suit.
As for pricing... My advice to newbies is usually think of what you would consider a reasonable charge and multiply by three.
Maybe that sounds a bit silly, but remember you are in it to make a profit.Stretching a 20x24 canvas?
12.50 + cost of bars+vat (as long as no complications.)
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Not your average framer
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Hi Anne,
Welcome to the forum. It is very common for new framers to feel pressured into keeping their prices down. Sadley there is no easy way of working out exactly how to pitch your prices in a any given location, but you will need to ensure that your prices enable you to cover all your running costs and make some kind of living.
Sooner or later, you will also have to address your waste materials issue and eventually you won't bother trying to use up every left over scrap of moulding, glass or backing. You will have to bin most of your waste, because you won't have the time to do otherwise. I allow for one third waste on most jobs. Don't forget about delivery costs!
So let me tell you, what I was told by someone at Wessex puictures when I first started. They told me to make sure that my normal mark-up of materials should not be less than five times. I found this to be good advice.
In time, you will find ways of increasing your mark-up, especially by shoping around when buying and knowing which mouldings will stand some extra on the price.
In the early days cashflow should be more important than building your stock. In time you will start building your stock as your cashflow will allow.
Try not to let your customers push you around on prices. Are you using Estlite, if so John can probably give you some good advice on how to start out.
Welcome to the forum. It is very common for new framers to feel pressured into keeping their prices down. Sadley there is no easy way of working out exactly how to pitch your prices in a any given location, but you will need to ensure that your prices enable you to cover all your running costs and make some kind of living.
Sooner or later, you will also have to address your waste materials issue and eventually you won't bother trying to use up every left over scrap of moulding, glass or backing. You will have to bin most of your waste, because you won't have the time to do otherwise. I allow for one third waste on most jobs. Don't forget about delivery costs!
So let me tell you, what I was told by someone at Wessex puictures when I first started. They told me to make sure that my normal mark-up of materials should not be less than five times. I found this to be good advice.
In time, you will find ways of increasing your mark-up, especially by shoping around when buying and knowing which mouldings will stand some extra on the price.
In the early days cashflow should be more important than building your stock. In time you will start building your stock as your cashflow will allow.
Try not to let your customers push you around on prices. Are you using Estlite, if so John can probably give you some good advice on how to start out.
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pieinthesky
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Thanks to all who took the time to reply with tips and advice. I feel at the moment that I am workng for the suppliers - I hope to make some money for myself soon!
I am going to trythe fishing line on the 'golf things' and put them on some green fabric. I think they will look good.
Thanks again, Anne
I am going to trythe fishing line on the 'golf things' and put them on some green fabric. I think they will look good.
Thanks again, Anne
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osgood
Pieinthesky,
You should first work out how much you need to charge for your time per hour.
This should include all of your business costs - rent, electricity, phone, bank charges, accountants fees, etc, etc. Everything apart from supplies. Calculate this on an annual basis, then work out how many hours you will work annually. Add to that how much you want to make annually then add that to the other annual costs and divide by the number of hours you will work, including the time you spend dealing with your customers. That will give you your labour rate per hour.
It's best to time yourself on each operation such as cutting a frame, joining a frame, lacing a textile, hinging paper, cutting a mat, cutting glass, etc, etc. From these you can work out a pricing structure that is quite accurate, but it can be tweaked if necessary.
Be wary of just using a multiplier of the cost of supplies as this is only an approximation. Some will say 2.5 times the cost, some will say 3, 4, 5 times the cost of supplies. That's a bit like a lottery and as everyones business costs vary greatly, it is not accurate and can be detrimental to your profit.
You also need to charge more for your supplies than you paid for them. At least double in my opinion, but others may use a different amount. You need to add in a considerable amount for wastage. I allow between 25 and 30%. If you don't allow that much, you will lose money. Some framers have a way of using scraps to get some money back and that's good if you have the time and energy to spend on that. Personally, I don't, so almost all of my scrap goes in the dumpster or is given away to schools.
Once you have your labour rate worked out you can work out a pricing structure based on time x labour rate + supplies.
It does require a lot of time and effort, but it's worth it.
You should first work out how much you need to charge for your time per hour.
This should include all of your business costs - rent, electricity, phone, bank charges, accountants fees, etc, etc. Everything apart from supplies. Calculate this on an annual basis, then work out how many hours you will work annually. Add to that how much you want to make annually then add that to the other annual costs and divide by the number of hours you will work, including the time you spend dealing with your customers. That will give you your labour rate per hour.
It's best to time yourself on each operation such as cutting a frame, joining a frame, lacing a textile, hinging paper, cutting a mat, cutting glass, etc, etc. From these you can work out a pricing structure that is quite accurate, but it can be tweaked if necessary.
Be wary of just using a multiplier of the cost of supplies as this is only an approximation. Some will say 2.5 times the cost, some will say 3, 4, 5 times the cost of supplies. That's a bit like a lottery and as everyones business costs vary greatly, it is not accurate and can be detrimental to your profit.
You also need to charge more for your supplies than you paid for them. At least double in my opinion, but others may use a different amount. You need to add in a considerable amount for wastage. I allow between 25 and 30%. If you don't allow that much, you will lose money. Some framers have a way of using scraps to get some money back and that's good if you have the time and energy to spend on that. Personally, I don't, so almost all of my scrap goes in the dumpster or is given away to schools.
Once you have your labour rate worked out you can work out a pricing structure based on time x labour rate + supplies.
It does require a lot of time and effort, but it's worth it.
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Mr Bojangles
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kev@frames
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Fishing line is great, thats our first choice here, too.pieinthesky wrote:Thanks to all who took the time to reply with tips and advice. I feel at the moment that I am workng for the suppliers - I hope to make some money for myself soon!
I am going to trythe fishing line on the 'golf things' and put them on some green fabric. I think they will look good.
Thanks again, Anne
lmao at feeling like you work for the suppliers, a few years ago my bank manager had a complete sense of humour failure when I demanded a Midland bank tie becasue I seemed to be the only person working for them that hadn't been given one yet
Needless to say we are not with that bank (HSBC or whatever they are called now) any more.
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Roboframer
Welcome Anne,
Fishing line is UV vunerable - can, in time, go brittle.
I'd go for cotton 'button' thread, which also, unlike monofilament, comes in a lot of colours, one may blend in better than a clear but shiny strand of monofilament.
Lots of other fancy materials, but button thread is easily available.
Fishing line is UV vunerable - can, in time, go brittle.
I'd go for cotton 'button' thread, which also, unlike monofilament, comes in a lot of colours, one may blend in better than a clear but shiny strand of monofilament.
Lots of other fancy materials, but button thread is easily available.