Frames for bathrooms

iantheframer · Post by **iantheframer** » Tue 01 Apr, 2008 9:43 am

I’m sure this has been raised before, but we have been asked to frame two photographs for display in a bathroom (yes we have tried everything to change the customers mind)

The pictures will be dry mounted onto aluminium and the laminated glass will be sealed into the frame with clear silicon, glazing will be spaced away about 10mm. Frame is a standard black moulding.

Any other tips or advice would be welcome

Ian

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Tue 01 Apr, 2008 1:44 pm

Well you have the two best if not the two only true barriers - glass and metal.

I'm no expert but my thoughts are that moisture, in the form of condensation can be sealed in as well as out - but sealed it must be of course. Also that metal is a good conductor.

markw · Post by **markw** » Tue 01 Apr, 2008 2:10 pm

I would place a sheet of aluminium and a sheet of mountboard in a steamy bathroom and see which one attracts the most moisture - I suspect the Aluminium will show droplets forming before mountboard.

Are these big photos? why laminated glass?

Whats a standard black frame?

Sorry - I was told never to answer a question with a question - but need a bit more info..

The Crofter · Post by **The Crofter** » Tue 01 Apr, 2008 4:31 pm

Self adhesive anti-condensation mirror heaters perhaps....

Not your average framer · Tue 01 Apr, 2008 7:53 pm

Roboframer wrote:Well you have the two best if not the two only true barriers - glass and metal.

Well, here's one more to think about, Correx! I use it for waterproof backing boards for customers with damp walls.

I never bother to seal the glass into the frame with silicon, as you can never be totally sure that you can seal everything, such as the mitres and the porous nature the wood used for the mouldings, However I do heatseal and dry mount the print and allow the heatseal film and the drymount film to overlap the edges of the print and weld together.

Since some dry mount tissues are porous, I would recommend a dry mount film instead.

What I don't like is putting mounts in a bathroom frame, I have done it and sealed all around the glass and a waterproof backing board with some "waterproof" tape from my local hardware store. I've never had anyone come back and complain, so guess it must be O.K.

Post by **prospero** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 12:30 am

I suppose it depends a lot on the size of the bathroom as to how steamy it gets. The main danger is water condensing on the outside of the glass and running down into the rebate, where it will be quickly sucked up into the boards behind the glass by capillary action. For this reason I would seal the glass into the frame with silicone, but not seal the whole package together.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:18 pm

Not your average framer wrote: Well, here's one more to think about, Correx!

Nope - just a filter, not a barrier

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:28 pm

prospero wrote:The main danger is water condensing on the outside of the glass and running down into the rebate, where it will be quickly sucked up into the boards behind the glass by capillary action. For this reason I would seal the glass into the frame with silicone, but not seal the whole package together.

I use a clear waterproof tape from my local hardware shop, first I tape the mount, undermount and waterproof Corex backing board together as one package, (taking care only to have a small overlap around the edge of the mount). Then I lay the glass onto this and re-tape it again.

Personally, I find silicon a PITA. It too easily gets where I don't want it and tends to go hard in the tube, before you can use it for a second job. Hence my preference for waterproof tape. Also, unlike the silicon, you don't how to wait for the tape to set.

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:33 pm

Roboframer wrote:Nope - just a filter, not a barrier

Hi John,

Are you sure? It's made of polypropylene and it's totally waterproof and non-porous. So how come it is not considered to be a barrier?

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:46 pm

I'm no expert Mark but Hugh Phibbs is .....

"A water-proof package can be made with acrylic glazing, since
it will resist wetting, but a climate-proof requires glass or laminated glass, since only
glass will function as a vapor barrier and that
is what in needed for long term exclusion of
moisture. "

"Crystalline materials are barriers, since each of their atoms is linked to its neighbors."

"To create a vapor barrier, a crystalline material (metal or glass) is required, since it will stop infusion of molecules. There are other materials that will intercept and neutralize gases, such as zeolites (Microchamber papers, Artcare boards) or particulate metals (Corrosion Intercept plastic, silver cloth) and these can be most useful. Aluminum polymer composites are available flexible sheets (Marvelseal 360, 1311, Mitsubishi High Gas Barrier, or Alumiseal zero perm vapor barrier) or as rigid composites (Dibond, Alucobond, Alumalite, Econolite, D-lite).

Aluminzed polyester film that is used in food packaging may also be useful. "

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:48 pm

Just an addition from me - Gortex is full of holes!

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 7:18 pm

Hi John,

O.K. I've learnt something, but I'm still suprised that vapour can get through Polypropylene. I always thought that polypropylene was non-hydroscopic.

Gortex? I said "Correx"

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 02 Apr, 2008 8:34 pm

Not your average framer wrote:
Gortex? I said "Correx"

I know - just an example, probably a bad one for this application, of something totally waterproof that 'breathes' - it's full of holes, smaller than water droplets but bigger than water vapour molecules - so your 'sweat' gets out and you don't get soaked from perspiration like you might in a plastic mac.

Not your average framer · Wed 02 Apr, 2008 8:40 pm

Hi John,

I knew that there was a reason. I can see it's obvious, now you you tell me!

iantheframer · Post by **iantheframer** » Thu 03 Apr, 2008 7:02 am

More info as requested.

Photos are B&W silver gelatine prints about 40 inches square. We suggested laminated glass as a safety issue in what is potentially a dangerous area for slipping, customer will not consider acrylic.
Frame is black “plastic” finish 50mm x 40mm.

I am told the room is quite large and well ventilated

iantheframer · Post by **iantheframer** » Thu 03 Apr, 2008 7:28 am

Oh sorry forgot to say, no mount. The images are framed to the edge