The Framers Forum

A bit of an obvious one when you think about it, but I only thought about it when I first saw a frame done like it some years ago.

When you have to nail mitres, if you only do it from below the bottom corners and above the top corners, then there are no nail holes to fill on the sides and therefore the appearance is better.

Not your average framer wrote: When you have to nail mitres

Impossible situation for me. My moulding stock is underpinner-able.

If anyone brings in an old frame or even a new one that is un-underpinner friendly I won't blush one bit when I tell them I don't want to know.

I have vices though!

Roboframer wrote:
I have vices though!

Don't we all.

Eating pot-noodles in bed is one I'll admit to.....

Not your average framer wrote:When you have to nail mitres, if you only do it from below the bottom corners and above the top corners, then there are no nail holes to fill on the sides and therefore the appearance is better.

The problem with that is that all the weight is pulling in line with the nails. The joint would be stronger if the nails were at right-angles to the forces of gravity.

For a large frame this could be quite serious with the two bottom mitres supporting the whole weight of the frame.

prospero wrote: Eating pot-noodles in bed is one I'll admit to.....

While watching the Lambshank Redemption, no doubt!

Not your average framer wrote:A bit of an obvious one when you think about it, but I only thought about it when I first saw a frame done like it some years ago.

When you have to nail mitres, if you only do it from below the bottom corners and above the top corners, then there are no nail holes to fill on the sides and therefore the appearance is better.

Ah! The penny has dropped. I've seen the light.

I didn't quite twig what you meant first read. I had visions of trying to toenail into the back and front of the frame. Been puzzling about all it night.......
I think WelshFramer has a point. The hangings are on the side rails so the weight tends to try and twist them. A side nail would be desirable to counteract this.

WelshFramer wrote:The problem with that is that all the weight is pulling in line with the nails. The joint would be stronger if the nails were at right-angles to the forces of gravity.

For a large frame this could be quite serious with the two bottom mitres supporting the whole weight of the frame.

If I can, I still underpin the back of the moulding, but usually these are mouldings too large to get enough wedge penetration, so I usually nail the front with 3" or 3.5" round nails and use Extramite glue, which is extremely strong. I've never had mitres open up on a frame glued with extramite!

A good many of these are customer frames being cut down to fit something else. The local auction house send such customers too me. It's good regular business, but some of can be very hard work if they are an excessively massive profile. I have a reversed sash cramp for forcing the original mitres apart.

Way before underpinners were in fashion, I learned to join frames just as NYAF suggests with just the brads nailed to the top and bottom rails.

While the integrity of the join is somewhat compromised, it is, I believe, the glue which holds the corners together anyway. Cross nailing would give it a little bit of safety in the event of a catastrophic failure (e.g. when the kids play ball in the house), but the top and bottom nailing looks better to my eyes.

For the rare occasion when I do have to join with nails, I still use the top and bottom method.

Old habits die hard.

Extramite glue is stronger than the wood. I've broken apart frames which I've glued with Extramite and it's the wood which breaks not the glue.

I always use Extramite on large nailed together frames. The long sides can exert a lot of leverage on the mitres, so I don't think PVA is good enough in such situations.

Do you have an internet source for Extramite, Mark? Sounds like good stuff.

Extramite is the same as Cascamite I think, I've used this to build bee hives and the glue really does stick and last even outside in really bad weather. Comes as a powder and you mix it up as required.

Moglet wrote:Do you have an internet source for Extramite, Mark? Sounds like good stuff.

Hi Áine,

Sorry I don't, but I buy it from the local hardware shop, which might be a good first step for you. It comes in powder form and is mixed with water before use. It is based on Casein resin, which is derived from milk protein.

There is a waterproof boat building version, which is called Extraphen and is even O.K. for prolonged use in fresh or salt water. Extraphen is probably available from yacht chadlers and boat building suppliers. I've never used this one, but I'm told it is extremely strong too!

bexwell wrote:Extramite is the same as Cascamite

That's correct. The name changed when another company took the product over, which was some time ago now.

Not your average framer wrote:... available from yacht chadlers and boat building suppliers.

Should have set up in West Cork, maybe?

Thanks to yourself and Bexwell for the additional info!

try axminster power tools

http://www.axminster.co.uk/

The product has changed names, although the description at axminster.co.uk is as follows:

Polymite Powdered Resin Wood Glue

Polymite (formerly known as Cascamite) is a powdered adhesive which is mixed with water before use. A synthetic resin, it is waterproof when dry. An excellent well proven adhesive for joinery, cabinet work or boat building.

I'll be trying some of this myself.

Bez, you should resize that avatar. On my laptop its half of my screen!

Bez, thanks for the product name update and source details.

And welcome to the Forum!

Polymite! Sounds like something unpleasant, which affects parrots.

Not your average framer wrote: usually these are mouldings too large to get enough wedge penetration

Is this a position I missed in the Kama Sutra?