The Framers Forum

Hi,

I have a client who ordered a frame from me (they were suppling the mirror) The information given to me was

1.2 x 1.2 m bevelled mirror with a 11mm wide frame,

My question is what size would you make the frame?

I made the frame to the rebate size 1.2m x 1.2m (with a 2mm tolerance). My client is saying that 1.2m x 1.2m included the frame therefore I should of made the size of the frame 1.2m x 1.2m outside size of the frame.

Who is correct?
Mark

Depends on how they placed the order, was it in writing , email for example and did it state
A frame to fit 1.2 x 1.2 m bevelled mirror with a 11mm wide frame
Or
A frame of 1.2x1.2mt for a bevelled mirror , frame to be 11mm wide

1st I would have questioned the use of a 11mm wide frame for a mirror that size

I have had similar things happen to me in the past, I have learnt that whatever you do, there is 50% chance you will make it wrong, so I now make sure by asking questions regarding the size and ALWAYS ask for the exact size in cm in writing, and if possible , ask for the morror to be dropped off to me so I can fit the morror.

One thing you have to bear in mind with people wanting mirrors, they tend to want them to fit a certain space, so normally that includes the frame,
So unfortunately in this case, you may need to bite your tongue, make a new frame, and think of it as lesson learnt

You aren't wrong - a 1.2m x 1.2m mirror with 11mm wide frame, would normally be cut to the glass size. But when it is a customer giving you the measurements, you can never assume they will logically be looking at it the same way that you do. Did their measurements include the allowance for rebate and so on?

Like SteveN, (and particularly with mirrors) we always ask the question "is it to be made to glass size or outside measurement?" and ideally ask them to bring it in for you to measure.

Customers don't always understand how we measure things, I'm sure most of us have been asked to quote for or even cut something to fit an existing frame, and the customer thinks giving you the outside measurement of the frame will be all you need.

We ordered a right angled triangular mirror once to fit into a specific space. We provided the template for them to cut to. We wrote all the instructions on the side of board facing the person cutting it so that it would be the right way around. We thought that was obvious. But they cut it the opposite way. When they realised their error, they didn't hesitate and just recut it for us at their cost. We were happy to go 50:50 on it, but they said they should have clarified, so it was up to them to rectify it.

In this case, I would remake it as a goodwill gesture. But definitely get the mirror in first and make the frame to suit. A happy customer who sees you find a solution is better than a fed up one who tells the world!

I hope everyone knows that the word "ASSUME" means.

Never let customers measure things.

Firstly an 11 millimetre frame for a 1.2 metre mirror?

It's always the glass size for measuring, passing on sizes etc.

But a customer isn't necessarily to know that.

I always ask to see the item so I can measure, or if not I check and double check what we are talking about.

The customer dictating the outside size of the frame isn't ever going to work as a frame that is 11m wide only has an extra width of 6 or so mm, the rest is over the mirror.

I've had problems with customers buying online from the the likes of The Range and Hobbycraft, and for some reason they display the size as the external size of the frame, often get asked for mount that will fit 27x27cm frames, which are really 25x25cm to you and me so have to ask them to measure the glass or backing board

It's an easy mistake to make - I'm saying that from experience. I never make anything for anyone now if I don't measure it myself. Even if the customer is reading their 'measuring instrument' correctly it might not tally with the measurements here in the shop. We cut mounts for a photo shop local to us and I can't count the amount of times they just ask for a 12x10 mount without telling us if that's the outside size or the aperture and if it is the aperture what's the external size. I won't do anything now unless they give me both dimensions. It's like we're separated by a common language.

But - just to keep the world happy I'd just remake the frame & write-off any loss. 1.2m is a reasonable size & I'm sure it could be taken apart and used for something else. Hopefully the customer will remember the good service and feel obliged to come back in the future with another job or two.

Something similar happened to me a few weeks ago. The customer said she wanted a frame for a mirror that was X by Y. To me, a mirror meant the mirrored glass element, but a mirror to the customer meant the whole thing, frame an' all. Fortunately I saw the item before quoting so thankfully there wasn't a problem on that occasion.

A family member asked me to replace some glass in a picture recently. She's not local so I asked her to send me the measurement of the glass. When I checked the figure she'd given me, it turned out she'd measured the visible area of the glass inside the frame.
(We've decided now that I won't order the glass until I've got the job in my hands )

This reminds me of a little sketch in Are You Being Served? when they are trying to get measurements from a customer over the phone.
"He's holding the tape measure in the hand he's holding the phone in."


Let the Dog see the Rabbit: That's my Motto.