The Framers Forum

Omfg! That is an upgrade!! Wow, love to know what the final price came out at??

I think DYMO tape is under-rated!

Nice job though

Just back from visiting Munken mount board distributors and framers in Singapore, Australia, Vietnam and U.A.E

Checking in to see the posts for Feb 3rd and 10th But dont see any ?

I really hope this thread grows to include many more posters (rather than readers ONLY )

Its such a good idea and I do hope it succeeds and prospers.

Here are a couple of jobs we completed recently

The circus item is an original poster from 1970, it's a local guy that collects cool stuff

The heron is something we printed, added texture gel & then popped a little double frame on top

edit - Again, for some reason the images have been rotated by the upload

It's not Friday now but it was when I finished this batch of frames. All made from R&H mouldings and hand finished by myself. This project has kept me busy over the last few weeks so I'm very much looking forward to making some smaller frames now for a change.

Wonderful stuff there Matt.
Love those two big Flemish frames.
How do you secure the sides of those Flemish cornered frames whilst letting the glue dry?
And how do you not cut your fingers on those small chip inserts?

This was a late Friday piece and I also had to remove the names, which is why the name tag looks like a white strip, so afraid it's a bit late. The bottom mount is a cut out of the Navy white ensign. It's the Royal Engineers this week.

This is a sampler from 1890, stitched by a member of our customer’s family. It was still in its original Oxford frame, with its thin planking backing which had split into two pieces, original glass and so on. Customer quite understandably wanted to retain the frame but the “internals” needed an update.

The sampler had been stitched to paper for support. The paper was brittle and torn. It was carefully unpicked from that and then stitched to a support fabric that was laced around a padded Level 1 board. To retain the original appearance of close framing, Optium acrylic glazing was used which can safely sit against the fabric.

The frame had an extension attached to the back, stained black. Small areas of the frame were touched up but at the customer’s request it was mainly left untouched, particularly on the exposed ends of the rails. The frame was then lined with foil tape. Level 1 board was used behind the fabric board and an additional layer of Mylar added. Archival backing board behind that and then another layer of Mylar, before the original planking was refitted. Then a Kraft paper layer before fixings completed the piece.

Jo, you have done a magnificent job.
The sampler just looks so right in its original frame.
And now it's got the 5-star preservation treatment.

Two questions;
Why not just call 'Level 1' board - museum board?
Why replace the original glass?
I know you're going to say the Optimum will prevent colour fading and that it is safe when touching the fabric, but dealers in the antique trade always treasure the use of original hand-blown glass.
Could the fabric not have been set back a bit from the glass?

Thank you, we frame lots of things every week, but textiles are my favourite thing to work on and something I specialise in.

To answer your questions.

I call it Level 1 because that's what it is. The levels now mean that they can be used by their normal colloquial name in each region. What we call Museum in this country, is known as Conservation elsewhere, and so on. I could use either Level 1 or Museum, but since the change in levels we've tended just to use the numbers in the workshop and with our customers. It clarifies the criteria in our minds and sits neatly with the Framing Level we are also working to. It isn't wrong to say Museum, it is just what we choose to call it. Often we will talk about Conservation work and then advise Level 1 or 2 boards/techniques as appropriate. I think Justin mentioned in a recent post, the term "Museum" can often be misconstrued by customers.

The original glass was replaced for a number of reasons, and this isn't the first sampler we've done for them. Firstly, the customer was worried about fading and wanted the UV protection, even though it is being kept away from direct sunlight, halogen bulbs and so on. Secondly, she wanted the anti-reflection qualities. Thirdly, we did consider spacing it away from the glazing and using AR99 glass instead, but she preferred to keep the same visual appearance as it was originally - it also allows us to use fewer support stitches across the surface of the piece. This one is very intact, but often where there is a lot of damage, direct contact overlay is a sensible option. That's something we come across quite often with samplers. Final reason for being happy to replace the glazing - this is staying in the family, so the value of the original glass wasn't as important as the additional protection the new glazing option could offer. The original glass will be offered back to them in case they want to keep it for future use at any point.

Thanks, Jo, for your answers.
No problem if you want to call it Level ! board.
I just thought it would be more explanatory to describe it as 'a board used for mounting to museum standards of preservation'.
That would identify it more to readers who are not members of the FATG.

No problem with you replacing the glass if the customer was happy with that.
I still feel that pointing out the aesthetic beauty of retaining original glass should be part of the conversation you have with a customer.

I think it's great - I was wondering about spacing, regardless of optium properties but fully understand having to do more to the thing if it was spaced.

Not sure about the two layers of mylar, I think I'd have gone - padded mounting board, protective (level 1) backing (undermount) - archival backing (what was that exactly?)- then fix and seal that in the normal way, then mylar then old backing and paper cover. I'd possibly have sealed the glass-undermount sandwich with foil tape which would also do the job yours is doing .... but it would depend - easy to say what one would do without it in front of one

Does the paper cover seal the package and how is that fixed anyway?

I suppose if customer wanted to keep the wobbly glass it could be put on top of the optium,slightly spaced from it even - but I think the clear-as-a-bell look is best.

"Level one" is fairly self explanatory - it gets no higher.

Hi Dermot

The Mountboard levels are widely used far beyond just Guild members. We are in the transition period for the change from the old mountboard standards, to the new ones, with full compliance due from 1st January 2024. So the numbered Levels are being used for all boards manufactured by companies within the scheme in marketing materials from suppliers, mountboard selectors, price lists and so on. In the same way the industry used the terms Museum, Conservation and Standard for boards previously when the Guild mountboard standards were first introduced, now framer members and non-members alike will be seeing Levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 boards being sold.

We always have the conversation with customers regarding retaining original glass, frames, backing boards, labels and so on. That's why the original wood backing has been retained on this one, even though it is for a cosmetic appearance rather than as an effective backing board in this case.

JKX - to clarify it goes from front to back - Optium, sampler, padded fabric wrapped (laced) Level 1 board, Level 1 board used as undermount, Mylar layer, Corripluspb backing board from Wessex (recommended to us many years ago by a Conservator), then fixed in and tape sealed as normal - so that normally would be the final bit. But for this one as we had the original backing to put it, we put additional Mylar layer, original wood backing fixed in and taped as normal, then kraft backing over the top for neatness and to emulate the original backing method. Put on with EvaConR. Wouldn't normally put two layers of Mylar, but wanted to give the additional barrier between the planking backing and the archival backing board for a belt and braces approach at minimal cost - it also means that if that is ever damaged/removed in the future, the original "package" remains intact with all layers we would normally use.

Inside of frame was fully sealed from onto the rebate lip up to the back edge with foil tape. We didn't seal the sandwich on this particular one as the fabric edges were variable and it would have put potential adhesive too close to it and the fabric wrapped board.

Got it

Thanks Jo.
If the manufactures are following FATG categorization, then that answers my question.

Now happy that you already appreciate the value of using original glass.
I am glad we've had this conversation as it sends out the right signals to anyone else who comes across it.

Thanks both - I was very happy to answer questions and glad my answers helped to clarify things.

JO,
Wow, I've just looked up the price difference between CorriCon and CorriPlus! If backing boards will be included in the Levels update, it will help clarify best practice. Corricon is my standard backing board for all levels. Both are labelled as "Suitable for FATG Conservation framing" by Wessex. It would sure help to keep it simple if they label them as "suitable for FATG Level 1/2/3" etc... Some of us just need it spelled out really clearly!
Out of interest, do you dampen the backing paper before applying to the EVA? And does it still give the drum-like tightness that you can get will ATG? I imagine the paper shrinking at the same time as the EVA is going off.

Hi Justin

Backing boards aren't included in the mountboard standards because they aren't mountboards. But for the framing levels, they already state the preferred board, but that alternatives are acceptable and about barrier layers. Level 1 - 3 pH neutral boards are preferred. We tend to use either Corriarc or Corripluspb at Level 1 and 2, but at 3 or 4 then it is mainly a solid kraftboard adding barrier layers where we feel it is appropriate. Theoretically any backing board could be deemed suitable at any of the levels - and sometimes size restrictions and so on can dictate which one is most suitable - but by suppliers including the information about being pH neutral and so on, then you are able to select boards that meet the preferred option. I agree you do have to go looking a bit more, but the information is there. I'm not saying it isn't a conversation to be had about spelling things out more clearly, but it goes back to that flexibility that was discussed about what type of frame to use and where to draw the line I suppose.

With the EVA - we put it on one long side, allow it to go off to tacky and then bond down the kraft paper on that one side and let it dry. Then glue and let it to tacky on other sides and take the paper across, putting a weight across it as it dries. I was going OTT on this one just because I could otherwise I'd have used ATG or ATG alongside EVA for a quicker fix.

I know you're all going to hate this, but when I was framing up some antique prints for an exhibition, we cut a sheet of kraft paper to fit the outside of each frame first.
Then we mixed a small bowl of 50/50 PVA and water, into which we tipped a loose quantity of Brown Umber pigment.
Enough to make a dark brown paint.
The sheets of paper were then sloshed over with this paint.
A bead of PVA was run around the back of each frame and the sheet of wet paper laid onto the back, painted side up.
And here's the good bit -
You rub around the edge of the wet paper with your finger, so tearing it up slightly as you go.
The paper dries drum tight and has an authentic 'worn' antique look at the edges.

This is last weeks job for the Royal Engineers with inlayed top mount in the Regimental colours and ID patch.