The Framers Forum

I have been asked about making lots of these, with no rebate or backing, just the four sides in bare wood so the customer can finish off themselves. I am waiting to see them in the flesh but have been told they are 5cm high.

I can find some 49mm x 6mm spacers which I think will be too thin, so wondered about using strip wood from my local timber merchant, 45mm x 9mm.

Any other ideas I could look at?

I used to make boxes for a wedding bouquet framing business out of 12mm MDF, so if grain isn't an issue that may be an idea.

A good timber merchant will cut strips for you, any width you like, and you get a lot from an 8x4 sheet. The merchant I used had a CNC machine, B&Q etc had vertical cutters and charged far too much per cut.

Ooh, that’s a good idea! As far as I know so far, it is just the basic assembly the customer wants, nothing else.

The timber merchant certainly does cut sheets into strips, and free of charge. They’ve done it for me before for a large project.

Thanks!

Another vote for MDF. You can buy strips of it on the internet too, from skirting board type suppliers, although my local timber merchant does a better and cheaper job.

I use the router to cut a channel for the backing board, and install that as I join to speed the process up, and make it stronger, but the backing can also be stapled to the back.

Thank you. I have given a price for MDF based on me getting the whole order so I can set up a production line to do them in one hit. I think I have been competitive but I’m not too fussed if not as they are wanted within a week which will be a struggle.

Me again!

Does anyone have any tips for joining MDF? The search function is disregarding MDF as too common a word.

I did a trial and am not happy with it, the underpins seem to want to split the MDF and not close tightly. But there must be a technique to get around it.

This is a cheap as chips job but I still want it to be decent.

Any advice gratefully received as always, thanks

I sort of thought that might happen -
but I wasn't going to say anything.

Rather than having that ugly pin showing at the top of each corner, I would suggest you buy a few cheap strap-clamps and just glue the mitres closed.
There is a large area of MDF take up the glue so if you use a high-performance wood glue like Titebond 3, then you wouldn't need any mechanical support such as wedges and pins.

You can get strap-clamps from as little as £6.99 from Screwfix. Buy half a dozen and allow 6 in the morning and 6 overnight you'll be producing 12 a day.

Thank you and I bought some tightbond at the weekend.

The pin apparently gets covered up by the artist when they finish the frame off. Would you suggest not using it because of aesthetics or because of the splitting issue? I only have to make 25 by the weekend so I am happy to clamp them a few a day.

Living and learning!

I sort of thought that wouldn’t happen, seeing as I’ve done hundreds of them, which is why I said something.

What thickness MDF are you using? In 12mm I could stack two 10mm wedges EACH SIDE! I am going from memory though so maybe it was thicker but I don’t think so.

Your underpinner could also be a problem and maybe the v nails too - I used a CS 200 with rebate clamps and automatic pressure sensors. You can buy v nails for MDF but I didn’t.

Plywood could be another option but far more expensive of course

A face joint is the weakest woodworking joint there is, never depend on glue alone, especially on frames only. At least complete frames have other things like tape to help.
Clamping a lot of frames (boxes) also of course takes a lot of clamps - or a few days.

What are these boxes being used for? Will the “ugly pin” be visible on the finished product? Is it an issue with your customer?

This is a spacer made from the same mdf that we used because the rebate clamps left teeth marks on the inside of the joints (as they do on most mouldings, they’re very powerful) and as you can see, two v nail positions - no problems.

Thanks, it could also have a lot to do with me of course!

I haven't bought the MDF yet, I got some freebie scrap strips of 9mm and 12mm to try before I commit to buying any.

I don't mind buying a clamp or two, but any more and I am wiping out any pennies of profit at all. But my equipment is at home so I can go and rotate them 24/7 if necessary I suppose. This customer was passed to me by their normal guy who doesn't want to do it any more - and I know him - so I may ask what wood he used tomorrow and see how much that is.

The 9mm looks better but split with one pin, the 12mm looks a little odd but is better. 2 pins blows the mitre apart and doesn't seem to want to sit centrally.

I only have a CS79 so basic and relies on me holding as it pins.

I did just try putting a pin on the bottom only and clamping the top (I have a single corner clamp so gave one side a go) and that seemed to work better. Could that be an option? Glued with the pin on the base only?

JKX wrote: ↑Sun 21 May, 2023 4:50 pm

What are these boxes being used for? Will the “ugly pin” be visible on the finished product? Is it an issue with your customer?

Sorry just saw this. The customer is an artist and has a tiny budget so tacks the back on, finishes and paints them themselves. They put little dots and decoration on the pins that are at the front and put little sculptures inside. They brought me what they have had done before, but I couldn't find the same size wood and the frame/supplier (who made them last time and passed the customer over to me) was closed so I couldn't ask advice. And the artist is desperate for them by the end of the week so I took pity....

WannabeFramer wrote: ↑Sun 21 May, 2023 5:23 pm

I did just try putting a pin on the bottom only and clamping the top (I have a single corner clamp so gave one side a go) and that seemed to work better. Could that be an option? Glued with the pin on the base only?

You could do that but then pin the other side when the glue is dry.

So I just tried putting a pin in the clamped joint, and it split it open again. Meh.

Ah well - maybe stripwood then

It is looking quite likely I think. I will ring the framing supplier in the morning and see what he has/used previously, and failing that I can get stripwood locally if I need for not a huge amount more.

I would rather spend more on the wood, make no money but do them quickly, than to buy clamps and have a stressful week trying to get the MDF to work.

And learn for next time!

Thank you for all your suggestions and help, it is appreciated as always.

The wedding bouquet lady I made the boxes for used to get them from a guy who made bird houses etc out of plywood, and charged her a fiver per box regardless of size! He was using up stuff he’d probably otherwise toss out, but still.

Maybe strips cut from sheets of plywood would be cheaper than strip wood ?

Er, is this the part I admit I am charging a flat fee of £5 and there are 3 different sizes......? The amount of MDF I can get ready cut is cheap enough to give me a little bit of change, but you can see why I am not keen on spending that change on clamps and getting nothing at all out of it. Nor do I want a week of stress.

I'm not good at saying no.....

I've had another play around and smaller wedges seem to work better (Casesse pink ones). A compromise maybe? If I am not needing to clamp for hours then I do have the time to make them as long as I know whatever method I go for will work.

Just as an update, we are going for stripwood that I can get locally and instantly for this batch that is urgent and I have the moulding info from the previous framer for if and when there is a next time.

Many a lesson learned on this one! Thanks all