Large vintage posters - help please

[Carol55]

Hope everyone is enjoying the beautiful sunshine?

Please can we ask for some advice?

We have a client who has two large vintage posters that are worth £600 each, approx. They want them framed to a high level but also without a boarder / mount in a 15mm wide profile (obviously will need a sub fame).

When it comes to museum / travel posters we normally dry mount which is a big no for these items.

Please can we ask for a suitable method that will be correct for these items that are valuable and collectors items?

Oh the sizes are -

1010mm x 640 mm

and

910mm x 650mm

Thank you so much,

Carol

[JFeig]

As many of us on this side of the pond: "get out your magic wand". If these collectable posters have never been mounted to anything before, there will be limitiations as to what can be done and how the finished product will look. Most American picture framers go for the second solution, below

A thin sheet of paper can be mounted via hinges made from mulberry paper and starch paste. It will not stay perfectly flat due to the nature of paper as it expands and contracts in normal atmosphere.

A poster can be wet mounted to a portable substraight of a sheet of rag paper that is attached to a stretched piece of linen fabric. When dry this sub-assembly is strong and flat. This is a process that is done by a conservation specialist. As an example: https://posterfix.myshopify.com/ https://postercollector.co.uk/guides/ho ... e-posters/ There are more companies that offer such services.

[Carol55]

Thank you JFeig, I am aware of the process whereby posters can be 'linen backed' this would be a choice for the client which I would put to them.

We've seen on other common posts that the hedgehog method on 'cons' foam board / slip and adequate frame is the direction (for either linen backed or non)?

I think we will go this route, but super keen for and FATG input on the subject as the client wants museum grade.

With thanks
Carol

[prospero]

I like to use a wide, flat moulding on posters and contrive a wide rebate either by routing the rebate to about 30mm or
adding a slip. My thinking is that posters are usually on a wall so visually don't benefit visually from a mount. This way also
saves a lot of weight re. the glass area and a wide frame provides sufficient strength. If you need to use a skinny frame then
this does create some complications. A subframe is a must but the slip will add width.

raisedslipmat001.jpg (5.48 KiB) Viewed 55207 times

* If you use a painted slip then it needs to be separated from the glass using a thin strip of linen tape or you get strange
optical effects where is contacts the glass.

** Two top hinges are usually OK, but some loose side hinges can be added if need be.

[vintage frames]

Prospero's reply does make good sense but referring back to the customers preferences, would it not be fairly straight forward to hinge each poster on to a slightly smaller sized museum board and then PVA that onto some foam-board?
This can then be glued to a larger sheet of mount-board so as to give a small but considered margin all around within the thin frame specified.

On those big sizes, you might also need to include some 'pass though' hinges.

[Justintime]

My first thought is that I would advise the customer away from such a narrow moulding for this size piece. It is doable but 10mm is not very much to give the subframe a good fixing, although a pocket hole jig fixing would probably be the strongest. I would suggest a 25mm moulding as minimum.
I would mount it to an equal size mountboard, using Level 1 hinging (i.e. mulberry/japanese tissue and starch paste etc), making the top hinges tight and the sides and bottom slightly loose to allow some movement. A spacer would be needed to keep the work off the glass. The bottom of the spacer and the rebate would need taping with either acid free white gummed tape or the frame sealing tape from Lineco. The backing board should be a conservation grade board. When fixing in the backing board it is important not to pinch the work tight in the package but to allow it some slack to expand and contract. I prefer to use strap hangers for a piece like this, but if using d rings and cord, ensure that it has two hanging points which are at steep angles (i.e. much closer to vertical than horizontal).
The customer has to be advised that these hinging techniques are as low impact as possible and that the piece will not lie totally flat.
I like Dermot's idea too, but for this level of work, you must use Evacon EVA glue and not PVA inside the frame package.
I like Prospero's technique as space for movement is built into the design, however as he points out it is for a wider moulding.
* Interestingly we did a couple of pieces with painted slips. The one we finished with an acrylic seal/varnish topcoat did give bad optical effects and required a very thin fiddly application of tape, the one without the acrylic topcoat was fine.
I'm sure other GCF's will have other thoughts on this, I think Tudor Rose is back from her holiday now!

[vintage frames]

Question to Justin -

With the method you describe, I'm presuming the spacer is going to crimp the outer border of the poster.
Does this not tend to cause the paper to balloon inside the frame?

[Justintime]

"When fixing in the backing board it is important not to pinch the work tight in the package but to allow it some slack to expand and contract."

[vintage frames]

Sorry, I didn't read your post carefully enough.

Good mention of Evacon.
I never gave the issue much thought before.

[JKX]

The customer wants best materials and methods, the materials are no problem but the methods are, because you have to make compromises to suit their stipulations. They are not allowing you to do your job.

I think all the methods detailed so far, bar stickig down to linen by someone qualified/experienced in the method, involves putting wet hnges withim the image area on fairly flimsy paper.

Given carte blanche this can be mounted with no adhesive whatsoever, platform mount, mounting strps etc, but they need some space around.

Given that and the skinny moulding issue, I'd just refuse to do it unless they changed their mind, otherwise I reckon it would be comng back.

[JKX]

"When fixing in the backing board it is important not to pinch the work tight in the package but to allow it some slack to expand and contract."

Final backing and sealing should have zero to do with mounting artwork.

[theframer]

I think justin means when the mount is the same size as the artwork john and touching the spacer/fillet so its not squeezing it tight,

[Justintime]

Thanks Dave, yup just what I meant. But John does love the last word! It's a familiar feeling...

[theframer]

I would mount it to an equal size mountboard, using Level 1 hinging (i.e. mulberry/japanese tissue and starch paste etc), making the top hinges tight and the sides and bottom slightly loose to allow some movement.

Would you do that with pass through hinges justin?
Thanks

[JKX]

Thanks Dave, yup just what I meant. But John does love the last word! It's a familiar feeling...

Hinged artwork resting on spacers and vice-versa isn’t a good idea whatever compromises are made.

Could we just carry on talking about methods and materials rather than people? Thanks.

[prospero]

If you look at my diagram up there^ you'll see that there is a bit of 'jiggle room' for the paper. The outer edge of the slip
is raised slightly to lift the slip so the edge of the paper is unrestricted. I typically use Linen tape, but whatever you use it
should be a tad thicker than the paper. A 30mm slip is ideal. A 10mm tape strip leaves you 20mm overlap on the paper. But
you should always ensure there is at least a 3mm gap between the edge of the paper and the tape.

* I like to match the slip to the frame. That way the slip visually becomes part of the frame an not a 'mount'.

Fine if you are hand-finishing, but there is a gold slip readily available that is 30mm wide.

Another option is to widen the moulding rebate width using a router. But that's getting into woodworking territory...
This needs a moulding of a certain size and shape to make it feasible.

[theframer]

Thanks Prospero i understand your layout thanks,
I was referring to justins post about an equal mount board

[JKX]

If you look at my diagram up there^ you'll see that there is a bit of 'jiggle room' for the paper. …………..

That would help indeed, but the problem in this case would be that it doesn’t fit the brief regards close framing in something skinny.

Also the words “museum” and “level one” which is also known as “ultimate” level have been mentioned. Ultimate means it cannot get better.

For me it’s conservation framing ….. or it’s not! This would not be, because there’s a lump of wood inside the package and actually, if the customer was happy with all the extra space, that could be replaced with mount board and a non-adhesive method could be used.

This sort of job has been discussed in other circles and an acceptable, but far from ideal method, is to float mount it on to a board just slightly larger, so that the spacers sit on that board but not the art, the art would be very close to those spacers and if the frame lip could be made wider, that would make life a bit easier. What a pain though, lining up something so large and float mounting so it stays a very small but even distance from the edge of the board all round.

The choices, unless the customer will move on presentation. are still as per the first reply by Jfeig - get it properly backed or go through a lot of grief to display it cockled.

[Justintime]

Dave, I stopped using pass-through hinges a while back when they showed through on a valuable piece. Not a great moment and simply down to much water I suspect I have hinged from the edges ever since, much faster and less restricting I believe. Happy to be told otherwise.

[theframer]

Thanks justin

So would that be from the edge around to the back on a equal size barrier board?