A vicar came in with a papyrus...

[WelshFramer]

... tightly rolled in a tube.

I've been flattening it for a couple of weeks but I'm not sure if it'll stay that way after it's framed.

The biggest problem though is that he wants it floated over a dark blue mountboard so the ragged edges show up well. The papyrus is so thin as to be almost translucent and I don't want the blue (or any hinges) to show through. I did think about painting the back of the papyrus with white emulsion but I don't think that would go down too well with the customer (or his boss).

It's about 23 inches by 17 inches.

I've wondered about mylar encapsulation to support it but it might but be difficult keeping something that size flat and it would tend to lose the natural curl at the edges that is characteristic of papyrus. And, in any case, that wouldn't solve the show-through problem.

Any ideas?

[Bill Henry]

Just a few weeks ago, a question about papyrus was discussed here.

[Roboframer]

You could encapsulate it, or overlay it, but you'd need a mount very close to the edges, and seeing as the edges are uneven, well, maybe not!

But maybe you could, depending on just how uneven/un-square it is, and if so, then you could score the mountboard, just smaller than the papyrus and peel away the surface paper only, to reveal the core.

Failing encapsulation/overlay, you could cut a piece of 3mm foam board, slightly smaller than the piece, with the edges bevelled away from the artwork and float it on that over the blue board.

Cold dry mounting, or wet mounting would solve the hinge-showing-through problem, and these things are (usually) of no value, but it's still risky due to the 'bumpy' nature of them.

Pass-through hinges, (whether hingeing tissue or tape) the same colour as the papyrus, or the foam board may be OK, but wet paste may be a problem - but not, maybe (wet or self adhesive) if you attach them under painted areas.

[WelshFramer]

Just a few weeks ago, a question about papyrus was discussed here.

I note you suggest sandwiching the papyrus between 2 sheets of glass. That would, presumably, mean 3 sheets of glass in the frame is there is to be a surrounding window mount.

How do you ensure that the papyrus doesn't slip down - do you fix it to the glass somehow?

[WelshFramer]

Cold dry mounting, or wet mounting would solve the hinge-showing-through problem, and these things are (usually) of no value, but it's still risky due to the 'bumpy' nature of them.

Trouble is it's probably of value to the customer - I'd hate to have to pay to go to Egypt to replace it.

I have some acid-free PVA (Lion 1589). I wonder if that would work to fix it to an undersize piece of foamcore or if tyhe glue would soak through the papyrus. Maybe I could test it on a small corner that wouldn't notice if it got cut off.

I've mounted papyruses before but never over a dark background and never one this thin - it must be a 70gsm papyrus.

[prospero]

You could try using a piece of paper behind the papyrus. I'm thinking something like Canson or Ingres - the stuff for drawings and pastels. You should be able to get a shade close to the papyrus colour. Cut the paper slightly smaller than the papyrus and drimount it to the blue backing, but leave maybe an inch all round the edge unstuck. Then take small nibbles out of the hard edge of the paper with a pair of pliers to blend it in with the rough edges of the papyrus. Damping it slightly will make the fibres feather out. To fix the papyrus, use torn paper hinges fed though slots. Pregummed Hyaku should be OK for this purpose as it is the right colour and if you feather the edges well it is nearly invisible. Ideally you should try to make the slots behind a painted area. If this is not practical and there is a danger of the slots showing though you would have to hinge it directly to the backing. I would use one hinge in the centre-top, gummed all the way along for the main strength and smaller satellite hinges placed near the corners to stop it flapping about. The smaller hinges should be engineered so that there is an ungummed section on the part that attaches the papyrus to allow movement.

I have drimounted papyrus in the past. It's OK up to a point, but the tissue tends to be shiny and shows though the gaps in the weave. Could look very nasty if the papyrus is as thin as you describe.

[Bill Henry]

How do you ensure that the papyrus doesn't slip down - do you fix it to the glass somehow?

No, we generally discourage a window mount (mat). From front to back, the club sandwich is
----
glass

papyrus

glass

contrasting color/textured mount(mat) board

two or three small squares of mount board tacked and stacked in the middle of the back of the mount board

Foam board
----
Once this sandwich is placed in the frame and fit (with a little tension around the perimeter of the foam board), the pressure of the small squares of mount board against the colored background and, in turn, the second piece of glass, keeps the papyrus from moving.

We don’t like to use any adhesives if we can avoid it.

If someone insists on a window mount, then we’ll abandon the glass/glass sandwich and treat it as usual. But, one of the reasons we like glass/glass is that it tends to keep the papyrus flatter than can usually be achieved by simply “relaxing” it in a humidity chamber.

When we have to use an adhesive, we usually mix up some rice paste and “dot” it onto the back of the papyrus, place it on the colored background, and leave it under pressure for a few hours. Most papyrii (? plural ?) that we’ve seen are heavy enough so that those moist “dots” don’t leach through and make the papyrus puckery.

[framejunkie]

For items smaller than about A3, or for thicker items, the technique i've employed for glass sandwiches is simply to position the work between the glass and tape around the two sheets. I've used cotton wet tape; P90+; and cotton cloth self-adhesive stuff for this and they all worked ok.
- tape the first (long) side so the 2 sheets are touching
- tape the opposite side and get them touching if you can.
- tape the other 2 sides
This will pinch the artwork at either edge, and hopefully the slight bowing of the front sheet of glass will mean only the edges of the artwork will be under pressure - particularly helpful with things like papyri where the image is not on the edge of the paper.
It can help to weight the upper sheet of glass down as you do the second edge, and leave it there to dry if you are using a wet tape.

I've used this technique a little, especially for a regular who has a wall of mementos in his hall. All the frames are different but all have a glass sandwich with no backing(thus they are shadow-float mounted on the off-white of his wall).

If using a backing mount, Bill's method with the pressure against the middle will work well. watch for adhesion of the paint/ink/whatever

Don't do use either technique with photos though - they'll stick to the glass and look terrible




A brief word-geek moment -

Plural of papyrus is 'papyri' - pronounced -ree at the end. Some(American) dictionaries also acknowledge the validity of 'papyruses', but the Oxford English Dictionary won't hear mention of it, and that's good enough for me.

[Roboframer]

I'd say that if you are going to sandwich anything between two sheets of glass* Then you may as well write off the mounting technique.

As long as it's effective and not visible, any harm it may do will be written off or countered by what plonking it against the glass may do.

Bottom line? Well, maybe it comes down to playing God with other peoples' property again, or maybe it comes down to lengthy discussions about value - commercial, perceived, sentimental, whatever.

I find it easier to avoid all that and draw a line/lines - I don't do glass sandwiches for anyone/thing - if they don't like it - and they won't go with my compromises - fine, someone will do it.


*Unless that package is itself glazed, but you are looking at two inches of space - each side of it, to write off condensation problems.

[WelshFramer]

As long as it's ... not visible, any harm it may do will be written off ...

Don't forget, this customer has a superior who will probably be watching every move I make.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. It's been a few weeks since the customer brought the papyrus in (actually there's two of them but I thought it simpler not to pluralise the original question) so I'll have to go back to the job sheets and remind myself of the frame/window mount combinations that we agreed and see how they fit with the various ideas.

Watch this space...