new framers group

[greenfields]

As times are hard at the minite but i am getting a lot of work but i have been told that you can get 10 different prices for the same frame now it would be great if all the picture framers came together and come to some agreement about pricing here in ireland .
I know there is the trade guild in england and some framers in northern ireland work on there rules which is great but trying to get work then the customer tells you i got the last frame for hale the price .
no1 football shirt=200
no2 football shirt=100
no3 football shirt=50
This is the problem that i see every week can we all come to get some sort of fair play every body on the same price i know somebody in belfast or dublin get big rates to pay but trying to get a living is getting very hard

[Comet]

Hi Greenfields,
I would be very surprised if The Fine Art Trade Guild had rules relating pricing structures in place for their members.

The legalities of such actions by a organization would be questionable.

If its a fact that framers that members of the Guild are, for want of a better word Price Fixing, then surely the FATG cannot condone their actions.

I dont live in Nothern Ireland so I am not aware of the situation there.

Neither an I a member of FATG I think its a waste of money, but thats just my personal view.

Its not just Picture Framing , The weakness of the English Pound plus the drop in VAT in Nothern Ireland, and the increase of VAT in the Republic is having an effect also.

People from as far south as Cork or Kerry are going to Belfast to do their Christmas shopping.

[markw]

Its illegal to fix prices in the way suggested in the uk. We have priced jobs up here on the forum to give some idea of the range of prices. If you think about it - any bespoke product will be influenced by many factors. My prices being a high street retailer paying VAT - high rates and rent wont be the same as someone working from home who doesn't have the same overheads.

What the FATG have attempted to do is establish some defined standards - you can opt into that wherever your based.

[silvercleave]

[quote="markw"] My prices being a high street retailer paying VAT - high rates and rent wont be the same as someone working from home who doesn't have the same overheads.
quote]

Yes I work from home at the moment to get the whole show on the road, when it comes to pricing I certainly don't go down the cheap route, this only agravates other framers, if and when a move into larger premises comes I will then retain, hopefully, the customer base without the comments ''haven't your prices gone up !''. Cheap price often means cheap job. Quality costs

[absolute framing]

Hi,

I'm in the Republic of Ireland and am a member of the FATG.
There has never, ever been any price fixing going on as far as I'm aware of.
You may be getting confused between organising/fixing framing "STANDARDS" and Price

Fixing/setting standards is legal and is to be enchouraged
Fixing/setting prices is illegal (do you here me- petrol stations and supermarkets )

I DONT want my clients to presume that the FATG guarantees a minimum/set price
rather
a guaranteed minimum standard

As for pricing
Jerseys i quote 250 Euro because thats whai i need to cover my time, overheads and materials
Often, i'm told someone else will do it for 100/150 Euro
I explain to them, the techniques and materials i use. Some give me the order, many dont.

I know times are getting harder - however i believe great customer service along with top quality framing, at a reasonable/fair price is the correct business model for me.

The market is a diverse place, with many different customers and businesses.

Often I will send someone to another framer who will do a Jersey for 100/150 euro, why?
I will never convince some people to pay for my skills (some have the money, they just dont like to see it go)
They may not be able to afford my level of framing
It's good customer service to help a customer (ok a non customer in some cases) get what they want

I'm not saying i dont do budget framing, I do
I keep a number of well priced mouldings and mountboards, but sometimes cheap aint cheap enough, hence they go elsewhere.......

[markw]

Didn't want to imply that position related to quality - It doesn't. But having to pay higher overheads will inevitably lead to higher price charged for the product. Location will always give you an advantage when it comes to attracting customers and the transition from a remote location to a more prominent one can be very difficult. Customers will always think you have raised prices - and almost inevitably you are forced to do so.
You have to have a certain confidence in pricing - knowing your costs - margins etc. There's also that added factor of knowing just how far you can go to get the maximum amount out of your customer. In my opinion the worst thing a customer can say to me is "oh I was expecting to pay more than that" - It normally prompts me to invite them to do so - I wont complain. Pricing things like footy shirts is a minefield - some can be very straightforward - others a real nightmare. Only experience can warn you to price appropriately.

[prospero]

A lot of 'price perception' depends on what the customer is used to. In the early '90s, during the housing boom (remember that? ) I saw lot of customers who had sold up and moved north. At that time you could sell your bungalow in Surrey or wherever and buy a huge house around here and pocket a big wad of cash. Invariably these 'imigrants' would be amazed at the 'reasonable' prices I charged. I even got people who lived in London bringing me framing. The locals however were (are) a different story. Any price I quoted was to dear. It also depends if the customer has stuff framed regulary and are 'cluey' about the actual process of framing. I had a lady a couple of weeks ago who wanted a photo and 10" gramaphone record putting in a frame she brought along. The frame was 1/2" gold, very shallow. I explained that the frame was not really deep enough. I could use it if she relly insisted, but it would work out dearer than a new one. In any case she was looking at £100+. Needless to say she didn't go ahead with it. Last Christmas another lady came in with a small watercolour. About 10x8. She wanted something special so I said I would do just that. When it came to prices she said something like "I'm not bothered about the cost. £200?...whatever" I did a straightforward double mount and I made a nice 'wheathered wood' frame. Charged her about £90. I enjoyed doing it and she was delighted. Took about a third of the time and effort that the record frame would have done. Go figure.

[greenfields]

thanks for the replay to my suggestion on getting pricing setup i will be moving to a new shop on the 1st of feb 09 and will be charging as much as possible this new shop is in a busy town so i will looking for the artists work because it will have a gallery.
i have from now till feb to set up a plan for pricing but there are two other framers in this town but they are framing for very little ,they just charge the cheapest for every size of frame it is unreal how cheap they do there framing but they have 5 framers working from 8 till 5 mon to fri now this is my main compatition but i will not be doing framing for nothing i need to make a good living .
this is a bussiness i will be running and need to get a good wage and some profit to pay for the rest of the bills.
i get very angry when i have to give a bad price for a framing job it takes the good out of the job

[Roboframer]

Make the reasons obvious at a glance for being more espensive - make them look cheap - doesn't sound like it should be too difficult!

[prospero]

There is always someone who will do it cheaper. The reason your competitors have 5 framers flogging away all hours is that thay have to to make money on low margins. I would like to see the standard of the stuff they turn (or should that be churn) out.

Charge a good price and do a good job. There is always room at the top.

[Not your average framer]

Most new framers ask about prices because they don't want to lose work by being too expensive. It's all very logical and sounds like common sense, but it has it's dangers too! At all costs, try to avoid getting work by being the cheapest - You'll end up working like mad, trying to keep up with the demand and earning peanuts.

Think about getting into hand-finishing. I do lots of hand-finished work, which is very enjoyable to do and saves you from worrying about your competitors prices as it's usually something they don't even offer. I don't even know how much my competitors charge for things these days. It's just not an issue anymore!