The Framers Forum

Just a general enquiry to see if anyone has used Claryl yet? If so, any thoughts and comments?

I would like to know how they deliver. If they use the same carriers as their mouldings I can see us ordering 5 pieces and getting it delivered in 500 pieces.

john.

Very valid point, John. AMD (the company from which I buy TruVue) deliver glass themselves, not by courier. My Arqadia rep's due in to see me next week. I'll ask him how they're going to approach delivery over here.

It seems to be in rather strange sizes.

Doesn't it just! I must admit I was pleased to see that there are sheet sizes that I will be able to actually handle. I find it extremely difficult to handle Con Clear 40 x 60" lites. It's one of the things that has put me off pushing it with customers.

Have you tried using a long stick instead?

Evening all!

Just had a visit from my Arqadia rep, and got to see their new Claryl glass. First impressions are very favourable: lots of the benefits of Museum, but without the scary price tag!

From my experience to date, compared to the choices available in the UK, Irish framers seem to have had quite limited options glazing-wise in terms of the products available over and above bog standard float (which, more often than not, we are asked to pay through the nose for compared to UK prices ... ). Granted, Claryl may not have the UV characteristics of TV Museum, but for customers looking for better optical clarity/reflection control (i.e. where what it looks like is more important than "top of the line" UV protection), I think that Claryl will be a very welcome addition to the suite of materials available to Irish framers: and it's priced at a level that will make it a more attractive proposition for customers looking to upgrade the glass in their frames without the need to sell a vital organ or three for the privilege.

Another plus for 'framing shorta*ses' like meself: Claryl comes in a range of sizes, including 2 that are much more manageable from a handling perspective than the likes of 40x60" lites (they really pose major difficulties for me physically).

I hope that I'm not breaching Forum etiquette by posting contact details here, but I really think Claryl is a product that could be of particular interest to Irish framers, and it costs nowt to look (and not see! ). Details available from Myles Kehoe on 087-913 9409 (email is myles.kehoe@arqadia.co.uk).

And before you ask; no, I'm not on commission. (Chance'd be a fine thing... )

Will let you know should there be any transit problems.

Moglet wrote:Granted, Claryl may not have the UV characteristics of TV Museum, but for customers looking for better optical clarity/reflection control (i.e. where what it looks like is more important than "top of the line" UV protection), I.

Does this glass offer any UV protection? I've looked on Arqadia website and its not mentioned

Myles said that it does afford some UV protection: he is to check and get back to me with specifics. I also checked the claryl.com website, and it states there that Claryl with UV protection is a planned future product. Not sure about how up-to-date their website info is though.

Will post an update when I get further information.

Hi ... Claryl is a low-reflectance/high transmission product, i.e it is designed to let pass (transmit) the maximum amount of visible light (in the 400-750nm wavelengths). Low-reflectance glasses achieve this by a) special coatings to reduce reflectance and b) use of low-iron ('water-white') glass substrates. The problem with this is that low-iron glass allows a lot more UV through than does standard float glass - uncoated low-iron glass filters only 20- 30% as opposed to standard float at 40-45% ( measured @ 300-380nm). Even after the coatings are applied most of these glasses will only achieve a similar UV filtration to that of standard float (40-45%). UV filters they ain't! The Glassmans rule of thumb....If the Supplier doesn't specifically describe a product as UV filtering AND specify the filtration level in %@300-380nm, then it isn't one.

So, the big problem with trying to combine the great look of low-reflectance/low-colouration glass with an acceptable UV filter level is the low-iron glass itself. The best UV+low-reflectance+'water-white' 2mm glass (Flabeg UV90/Nielsen ColourClearUV/G&M WWMuseum) hit 90%. Schotts very nice Mirogard Plus hits 82%+.
Higher figures (typically 98%+) can be achieved by not using low-iron glass (TruVue ConClear/ConRefCon/Museum glasses etc) but the transmission figures and colouration suffer.

The 'dogs whatsits' are the low-reflectance, water-white laminates from Schott and Luxar. These combine 2 sheets of 2mm or 3mm WW glass with low-reflectance coatings plus a UV filtering plastic interlayer. These glasses are 4.4 or 6.4mm thickness and hit over 99% UV filtration, but are costly, heavy and a bit difficult to cut.

Claryls' claimed transmission (98%+) and reflectance (1.2%) figures would give an absorption figure of less than 1% - indicating a low-iron glass substrate.
Wait until they bring out a proper UV version - and even then, read the small print.

The only problems I've heard of yet with Claryl have to do with a) getting it really clean - and b) with some reflectance-colour variation within individual sheets, but there aren't enough users out there yet to give proper feedback.

The real test will be what you, the users, think of it in a few months time!

The Glassman

Hi Glassman,

That's great information. Thankyou!

I note with specific interest your comments about cleaning Claryl glass. Indeed, the Claryl website has specific advice on cleaning the product.

My rep has advised me that Arqadia are providing FOC glass cleaner and glass handling gloves with a pack of Claryl. I'll be sure to report back how I get on with cleaning. (I have a dodgy shoulder, and glass cleaning is a bit of a hot potato with me.... )

Regarding the "strange" sizes, the dimensions quoted on the Arqadia site are for the "usable" area of the lite. The physical dimensions of the lites are slightly bigger, e.g:-


CMP090130: Quoted Size = 1220 x 865mm; Physical Size = 1300 x 900mm).

Hi, Moglet...
To be fair to Claryl, their cleaning methodology is exactly as I would advise for all coated AR-type glass. I was referring to questions raised as to whether this really works on Claryl compared with, say Mirogard. Claryl is produced using a new 'nanotechnology' process to apply a single, very thin coating. The surface produced seems not as 'sealed' or smooth as the dip-coated Mirogard. There are many who say the same applies to Luxar, Clear Colour and TruVue coatings - all of which are applied not by dipping but by 'sputter-coating' on a Magnetron line. You can get them all nice and clean if you persevere, but some folks seem to get a bit worried about rubbing away at delicate expensive coated glass! .
The other side of that coin is of course that Mirogard production is time, labour and process heavy. 3 coatings per side - wash, bake and inspect in between each. The Magnetron glasses are much quicker to produce (like a very sophisticated car-spraying line) but the capital cost of the plant is very high - and you need to know what you're doing. Claryl is a one-shot process using little time space or labour relative to the competition. The money has been spent on R&D mainly. If they do end up getting it right, it should be quite a lot cheaper in the long term as R&D costs are amortised.
There, even I'm nodding-off now - wake up at the back!
The Glassman

Glassman (John!!!!)

Thank you for your input it is very informative and useful.

Hope to take your class on Sunday afternoon….

the glassman wrote:There, even I'm nodding-off now - wake up at the back!

Well, this member of the audience is still on the edge of her seat!

Thanks again, Glassman! The engineer in me loves to understand about how things are made. Indeed, I really enjoy learning as much as I can about the materials we use to create our work.

I'll second that.

Nice to hear from someone who has got all the technical gen. The next time someone asks about speciality glass I can give them the whole nine yards.

First Claryl customer order in today!

Moggers (holding up POS sample*): "I have a new glazing option available, and I think this would look great in your frame?"
Customer: "Which one?"
Moggers: "The one you can't see."
Customer: "Wow! I thought there were only two types of glass there! Show me again."

'Nuff said.



* POS sample has 3 panels in a mount: Etched - Claryl - Float

Just received my Claryl glass: in perfect nick!

I'm just going out to recycle the packaging. I may be some time...

the glassman wrote:uncoated low-iron glass filters only 20- 30% as opposed to standard float at 40-45% ( measured @ 300-380nm). Even after the coatings are applied most of these glasses will only achieve a similar UV filtration to that of standard float (40-45%). UV filters they ain't! The Glassmans rule of thumb....If the Supplier doesn't specifically describe a product as UV filtering AND specify the filtration level in %@300-380nm, then it isn't one.......

..................... The best UV+low-reflectance+'water-white' 2mm glass (Flabeg UV90/Nielsen ColourClearUV/G&M WWMuseum) hit 90%. Schotts very nice Mirogard Plus hits 82%+.
Higher figures (typically 98%+) can be achieved by not using low-iron glass (TruVue ConClear/ConRefCon/Museum glasses etc) but the transmission figures and colouration suffer........

Interesting!

My Nielsen rep called yesterday; showed me 4 pages of Strengths & weaknesses of claryl compared to Clearcolor (non UV)

There was one 'strength' for Claryl - price!

Obviously they, as a competitor, are going to trash it - but in the UV comparison they state that Claryl is 30% and clearcolor is 45% - in the 300-380 nanometer range. Both levels are useless so I don't see the point of that ...... BUT ...... but, then they go on to say that Clearcolor +UV has '99% protection against UV' but without saying within what range.

It's 'waterwhite' and was always described as having 90% protection - I would have thought that if they had managed to achieve 99% - in the critical range, they would be shouting it from the rooftops. Maybe they have achieved it?

I think the 4 pages were just for reps' reference - an aid to the spiel - but I have a copy! I've emailed and asked for confirmation that that 99% is within the 300-380 range.

My Arqadia rep is on the case re Claryl and UV. He is going to come back to me when he has a definitive answer. Will post when I get details.

My arqadia rep called some time ago with a brochure from 'conservation by design' all big smiles.

There was not one 'conservation' item in it! It was all s/adh or gummed - and, of course, just like some folks here (no offence) he didn't know what I was on about when i pointed it out.

He/your rep also probably won't know what s/he's on about regarding Claryl, or any other bleedin' glass, including what's in the car windscreen and the specs/contact lenses they are looking through that through.

Nor will a Nielsen rep - or most any other moulding or general framing rep.

All they want to do is sell, and I've already outlined the extremes (I think) they are prepared to go to - stating 99% UV protection, knowing fine well (not the reps - the company) that they have not qualified that claim within the critical range. The same company also has it in B&W on a ready made range that the glass prevents damage from sunlight.

The best advice here has come from the glassman - he specialises. But even he's not impartial - and I'm not suggesting he should be, but anyway - if I handed him my 4 page thing he'd piddle his pants.