The Framers Forum

Good Morning Friends ! ( Isn't that how Chris Evans greets his listeners ? )

Thank you for my latest welcome from the honourable RoboFramer ! Thank you.

To take up Moglet's suggestion, here is my first " thread " for you all.

As you lot are the Framers, I think you are best placed to offer the most helpful advice to a new starter. What do Framers think are the best considerations that a new starter should know ? Where should they go, who should they see, who should they speak to in making a modern Framing business a success ?

Suppliers will say this that & the other, there is the newish FATG book out isn't there, the one about starting a frame shop & gallery...but I still think that there is a real wealth of information from all manner of established or newly established Framing business's that people can use. Basically, information from successful people - the people that may not get heard at the moment. Certain names always spring to mind due to the fact that they dare to stick their old head out to be shot at !, but there's sooooooooooooooooooo much more people can learn from the likes of YOU.

I know a good magician never reveals his trick, but will anyone be brave enough to offer up something that helps out a newbie ?!

Any suggestions welcome !

As a terry Wogan listener I guess i would have to greet you with some sort of sarcasim but I'll save that for another time.

Phil, your customer is the key to your business success and it's growth. Treat them as you would wish to be treated. Tell them the truth (except for how crap their granddaughters art work is ) at all costs with regards to the time taken to do a job, if it's going to take you a month so be it. And forget advertising, use your customers. A happy and loyal customer will bring more business your way. Having said that you don't need to put up with rude, and overly demanding customers.

Oh and never buy from ashworth and thompson (unless it's their frame pricing calculator - that programmer is a genius)

Hi Sarah,

Well, er, that's a start, yes ! By the way, I'm not blessed with the same hair colour as Mr. Evans. I just borrowed his greeting!

Would you say then, that the Pricing Program would be a great help to a new starter ? Costing out for jobs is always a difficult area it would seem. I have used the calculator that you mention, and it does seem very well devised. It was a Scotsman that wrote the program, wasn't it ?

Phil - a well thought out business plan supported by a budget is the starting point - in the early months of trading constantly check actuals with budget and watch all outlays - don't get sucked into any significant advertising commitments - evaluate where your customers are coming from and build from there

As you say there is so much knowledge out there - using the data on this forum will be a great guide as your business develops. Don't seek to learn it all at once - you will learn from experience, so in some ways take things slowly as you start until you have a base to expand upon

Ross

One piece of advice for new framers.....

Don't be afraid to charge.

Work out what it costs to be in business per hour worked. All your fixed outgoings, Rent, rates, power, phone. Right down to tea and biccies. Use this figure to decide your hourly labour rate. Take into account that there is always dead time when you have to do the books, sweep the floor, etc. If you are not careful you can end up working for less than minimum wage. Any fool can work 18 hours a day for peanuts.

Avoid adopting an 'apologetic' tone when quoting prices. And don't try and undercut competitors to attract trade. Do a good job for a reasonable price and people will respond favourably. There will always be customers who are looking for a cut-price lash-up. These are the ones to avoid. Whatever price you quote will be too expensive. If you offered to do a frame for nothing, they would want two.
Let them go and find a cheaper deal elsewhere if they can. You should aim to build up a loyal customer base who appreciate what you do. These people will spread your reputation among their friends. This is the best form of advertising and it's free.


Had a lady in just this morning with a painting to frame. Quoted £80.00. She asked about 'non-reflective' glass. I told her the drawbacks and showed her museum glass demo sample. £80 job is now £180 job.

Say no more.

philipsheldon wrote:Hi Sarah,
Would you say then, that the Pricing Program would be a great help to a new starter ? Costing out for jobs is always a difficult area it would seem. I have used the calculator that you mention, and it does seem very well devised. It was a Scotsman that wrote the program, wasn't it ?

No an Ulsterman actually - but they are just as tight with their money so always want to get the best price fro the work put in.

charge plenty, dont be afraid to say "no", get the best equipment you can afford, "no friends - no fear - no favours", work smart - profit is sanity turnover is vanity

There is an old saying about the needle of profit among the haystack of turnover.

Wish I could remember what it was.

In no particular order...

Spend time on a business plan. Decide on the sector of the market that you wish to serve. Create an appropriate image that reflects your market choice in your place of business.


Watch your cashflow from day one, especially when it comes to inventory!!! Be prepared to reduce your standard of living in the early days, to ensure adequate working capital to see you through the early years successfully. Always ensure that you have some cash as a "rainy day" fund.

Only buy materials that you have already sold!!! (particularly in the early days.)

Spend time investigating different offers from different suppliers, and choose those that:-

1. Suit your buying needs.
2. Provide quality materials at a fair price. "Cheap buys" can frequently cost you money in the long run.
3. You feel comfortable doing business with.

Invest time in developing a good relationship with your suppliers. Treat them well, and it will be more than returned to you!!!


Buy single boards (especially for odd colours) and moulding by length wherever possible (although once you determine which boards and mouldings are reliable sellers, then packs are OK.)

Bunch up orders for each supplier and place them in a single hit (say weekly/fortnightly) to minimise your carriage costs. Take advantage of "carriage paid" orders where practical, but don't order stock you don't need purely to qualify for free shipping.

Get a computer-based pricing system: it is the single most effective treatment for your own initial "sticker shock" and will help with your confidence when giving quotations to customers. It will also reduce the risk of underquoting more complex jobs, where due to inexperience you may be unable to accurately assess the amount of additional labour required to complete said projects. A computer-based pricing system will put you on the road to running a profitable business from day one.

I think customer service is really important, whether a greeting or going the extra mile. Things like opening doors, offering to carry picture to car and stuff all leave a lasting impression.
There is a shop near me that people WILL NOT GO IN cause the owner is MISERABLE. That says alot to me. I try to take an interest in my customers, they are the most important people in my shop, with out them i'm stuffed and i need to remember that!!
One thing i noticed wiv advertising is that its more important that you give them the work, than your needs, from their perspective. I never know whether my money is well spent or not... and of late i dont do it.
Good luck!!

Especially for the times in which we live:

1. If you're leasing a business premises, and the lease is for - say - 5 years, negotiate a "get out early" option (good advice in general, but doubly so in the current economic climate).

2. With respect to business planning, decide up-front exactly how much you are prepared to invest in your start-up. Define criteria to judge just how well/badly your business is performing, and also decide on a cut-off point should things not turn out as you hoped. Also, while planning for success, ensure that you also have an exit strategy in place should things not turn out the way you hope.

Meet other framers - if I had my time over I'd join the FATG straightaway, study/train for and take the GCF test and, especially, attend as many branch meetings as I could. Hopefully get invited to spend time in a busy, established frame shop of a fellow member.

Just no local branches anywhere near me.

This forum and TFG are great resources.

sarah wrote:And forget advertising, use your customers. A happy and loyal customer will bring more business your way.

What's advertising?

No website then? (Not that I have one) That's advertising.

No newsletter?

No Free newspaper editorials?

I spend £7000 odd a year on radio ads and it works - it didn't work straightaway. Every customer your advertising brings in has the same power of word of mouth as one that found you without it.

Speculate to accumulate - find out what the most effective type of advertising is for you, maybe by talking to people as mentioned. Don't just do a 'Field of Dreams' (If you build it, they will come)

Don't be afraid to be different, but in ways which mark you out as something special.

Make friends with your customers. Try to remember their names when they come in again. Do your best to make them feel special.

Make good use of your shop windows. Bait them with tempting items and bargains where appropriate to get impulse buyers into the shop. Make them feel welcome, if they've been in once, they are more likely to bring you their custom.

Roboframer wrote: What's advertising?

No website then? (Not that I have one) That's advertising.

No newsletter?

No Free newspaper editorials?

I spend £7000 odd a year on radio ads and it works - it didn't work straightaway. Every customer your advertising brings in has the same power of word of mouth as one that found you without it.

Speculate to accumulate - find out what the most effective type of advertising is for you, maybe by talking to people as mentioned. Don't just do a 'Field of Dreams' (If you build it, they will come)

Oops forgot to be exact with my remark about advertising. Naughty girl (slapping wrists as I speak)

Having been in Business for 21 years we have dabbled in the traditional notion of advertising with newspapers, radio, trade mags,etc and i guess that is what i had in my mind when I said about 'advertising'. (it didn't work for us BTW, does for others but not us!) We have found that about 97.436% of our business comes from word of mouth. The remainder would be from dudes walking in off the street having just found us as the drove past and the photographers down the road sending folk our way.

Our website could be deemed an advertising tool, but it really is there to give our address and a map.

So I repeat my top tip, treat your custoners as you would wish to be treated.

Just a sidenote on advertising.....

It's years since I actually put an advert in a paper or mag. I found that for every one genuine enquiry you get 10 headbangers and 10 other people trying to sell you more advertising. All this wastes time. A website is good and very cheap. You don't need anything fancy to start, just what you do and where you are. I staed mine a couple of years ago and it still has only one page. Must do some more to it ....... All you need is a dummies guide to HTML and some web space. Mine costs me about £60 a year. I use a basic HTML editor, about £20 and simple to use. Once it is all set up it's a piece of cake. There are more comprehensive website creation progs, but don't yet seduced by so-called web designers who want to charge a fortune. If you can frame pictures you can make web pages.
And keep it up to date.

(One of these days I will follow my own advice. )

Good Morning everyone,

Thank you very much to all of you that replied to my thread from yesterday. Your replies are absolutley brilliant & without a doubt will be immensly beneficial for a new starter. The info that you have supplied will go along way I can assure you.

Thanks for you suggestions.

Have a good weekend one & all.

Phil.

sarah wrote:
Having been in Business for 21 years we have dabbled in the traditional notion of advertising with newspapers, radio, trade mags,etc........................(it didn't work for us BTW, does for others but not us!)

Roboframer wrote: I spend £7000 odd a year on radio ads and it works - it didn't work straightaway.

It never worked for us when we 'dabbled' either - It all depends on the coverage area, the amount of earholes within it, the popularity of the station and its ratings. Plus of course the competition.

We started with a month here and a month there, special deals here and 'sponsoring' certain competitions etc etc. Then we went for one whole year and never looked back. The station looks after us as well.

We get about 260-300 ads a month and only pay for 90.

I've seen, or should I say 'heard' just a couple of other framers come and go, I'm the only one that's stayed the course, but there is one other craft shop on the same scheme as us.

Hi All
I would like to say HELLO to all
My name is Tom and I have opened up a new E-SHOP on the internet
My addy is www.reproduction-prints.co.uk
selling Prints from around the 1900s in all subjects-PLEASE have a wee look?
I hope we can share LINKS to each others sites in order that I get my FIRST SALE as to date I have had NO sales
Best wishes
Tom Norman Scotland
normanbttns@aol.comnormanbttns

Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:16 pm
Location: ayrshire scotland
Organisation: www.reproduction-prints.co.uk
Interests: printing golfing reading
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I'd say one thing a new starter has to do is look up what grants are available and get them! I could have got 30% or more of my machinery costs plus other help if I had known at the time.

Another tip for new starters: Very carefully calculate how much room you'll need to work, display and store stuff - then get a premises with at least twice as much room.