The Framers Forum

I am new to picture framing and am looking for some advice.

I have bought a piece of glass from a local supplier, but it is diffused (the only 2mm glass this supplier stocked). The picture I am framing is double mounted and the picture doesn't look sharp because it is not directly next to the glass.

I would like to know if anyone can recommend what type of glass I should use instead and if there is a supplier in or around the Sheffield (UK) area.

Many thanks

Welcome to the Forum. This is the place for all types of advice whether you are a 'newbie' or an 'old hand'. The only silly question is the one that is not asked.

I am somewhat surprised when you say you bought glass from a local supplier and he/she only supplied 2mm Diffused. Change your supplier. Look for 2mm Clear Float Glass. Normally supplied in sheets of approx 4foot x 2foot.

Difused or Non-Reflective (also sometime referred to as Matabelle) is usually good quality 2mm that has been lightly etched (sometimes by acid) on both sides. This usually minimises any reflections. However, as you have found out, the effect when using double mounts is to 'soften' the picture. It is best used with a single mount.

Whenever you are framing and using glass (whatever type) never put the image directly next to the glass, always use some sort of spacer. Particularly important with gloss photographs.

There are a lot of different types of Glass out there made by different manufacturers, who also claim that theirs is the best. It goes without saying that the 'higher quality' glass is also the more expensive.

By way of our useage and stocks, for every 5 sheets of Clear we use 1 sheet of Non-Reflective.

Hope this helps, no doubt other forum members will jump in and correct or confirm my comments.

d,

Agree with John, seek another supplier.
Learn about glasses online, and ask various suppliers what they offer.

Go to . . .
Google
and do searches on :

Tru Vue
Denglas
Guardian Industries
Tudor Glass

These should bring the respective companies up to, or near, the top of the list.
Have a surf about, and you'll find lots of info about the various glasses for the industry.

The last one (Tudor Glass) is my site / business, lots of info on Downloads page, and via Product index, about special glasses, cutting, pricing, making samples, etc.

There are bascially the following glasses available world wide, but not all might be found in a particular place.
I might also have missed some that I don't know of, but these would cover most needs.

Normal glasses

- clear float
- non glare / non reflective (etched) some (matobel) limited to the single mats (mounts) off flat artwork.

Mid range glasses with special qualities

- low iron float (eliminates or greatly reduces green hue)
- non glare / non reflective (etched), other high quality brands have finer single and double sided etched glass that can be spaced 2 or 3 mats off the art.
- non glare / non reflective (coated) excellent reflection control, with no space limitations, great for shadow boxing.

Glasses with special properties and / or UV protection

- UV clear, generally high grade low iron glass coated to *slow down* uv fading / damage.
- UV non glare / non refective, UV block on quality single sided etched non glare / non reflective glass.
- Museum / Denglas, 2 major brands, both with their little idiosincrsies, highest quality qlass for framing, with up to ~ 1% light reflection so very improved vision, high light transmissin for exquisite detail and colour, and the UV protection.

Typically, specialty glasses probably have 3 major brands worldwide, one or more of these should be available in the UK.
Tru Vue, Guardian, Denglas.

Hope that helps.

The best advice anyone can give you is to go on a course and get the neccesary basic knowledge. The Fine Art Trade Guild can point you in the right direction tel 02073816616.

I find our customers dont have much use for non reflective, although some do ask for it - maybe 1 out of 20. Many of them are under the illusion that it will give them better protection against fading I dont know what the truth is in that rumour, (anyone heard this?) so I just tell them that they can have it if they really want it but I wouldn't think it will offer extra protection, but its ok for diffusing reflections. I generally suggest they hang the picture someplace else or move their lighting, thats what I do myself. I suppose its one of the problems of human nature, I dont like it, so I dont want anyone else to like it either

Im not allowed in the shop very often.....yo can see why .... apparently my customer servivce is pol-pot charm school, crossed with basil fawlty, and a bit of victor meldrew thrown in.

The non reflective we do use is Strobel, usually, from belgium I think (?). And the regular float glass is usually Hungar (hungarian) or pilkington depending on the state of the "glass price wars" locally. And a bit of tru-vue when required from my local wholesaler.

and now im just off to les's site to have a look

Thanks Kev,
Hope you find my site of interest.

Re non glare (etched) and UV . . . yes, for some reason it does stop more UV than plain 2mm clear.
This must be due to the etching.

The little extra UV block certainly isn't enough of a reason to sell it for that purpose though, could lead to problems / complaints down the track.

Have seen test results, seem to recall it's up around 65% compared to clear at ~ 40% . . . you can most likely find something on the Tru vue site, or maybe e-mail them and ask their own test results.

Still, etched non glares are not generally a good choice, especially lower quality Matobel etc.
Certainly, not a lot of Aussie framers use non glare etched. When they do, they prefer the finer, more consistent etched Guardian or TV products.

If you're aiming high end, look at Denglas anti reflection or Tru vue reflection free, even better with UV block (Denglas UV or TV Museum) for the best protection on most custom framing jobs.

You've just got to overcome the pricing barriers, which takes a bit of learning.

thanks for clarifying that point about the UV protection, les (clarifying diffused glass, i think ive lost the plot ?.... its been a long day) So the customer is right after all!
yes a very interesting site you have there.

this is maybe one for the faux pau pages- i once had 2 sheets of museum glass cut to size and delivered, for one of those very interesting jobs -a glass back and front document frame for an extremely huge and old document which was then going to go between two sheets of safety glass in a wall partition in a solicitors office..... and while I was out at lunch one of the lads in the workshop cut them both up for 10x8 ready mades for the bargains bin. He thought they were offcuts.

Sure Kev,

Just keep noted that std non glare (diffused) is best not sold as UV glass, the slight extra protection over normal clear simply isn't enough.

UV in 300-380nm is 266 x more damaging than visible light, so important that it is blocked near 98% with genuine UV glass.

The Museum story; ouch !
Poor lad must feel pretty awful, especially after learning the cost.
They should be some pretty upmarket 10x8's when done !

So the client was going to use it ?
Either side sandwiching the document ?
If so, client may want to rethink technique . . . let me know if you want what I've gleaned about this type of double sided framing from various sources.