Limited editions/greetings cards

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Roboframer

Limited editions/greetings cards

Post by Roboframer »

Had a visit from a cold-calling rep from Medici today. We didn't want anything from him, but on the way out he noticed a limited edition, one of DeMontfort's - 'The Kiss' by Douglas Gray; he said he had that image on a greetings card. 'No Way' I said, 'DeMontfort are very strict about reproducing their limited editions in other formats, they just don't do it'.

So he went to his car and showed us the card, very same image - I'm not happy.

I was more than a bit miffed with them already, they never issued authentication certificates with their stuff until recently. Since they have started doing this it turns out that the number on the front of the print, which as far as I am concerned represents the TOTAL number of copies made (less, grudgingly, some artists proofs), is simply untrue in a lot of cases, as 'export' editions exist as well.

It was for these two reasons that we stopped dealing with Washington Green a while ago - extra editions and greetings cards (not to mention 'T' shirts, cross stitch kits and heaven knows what else)

As far as I am concerned when you pay for a limited edition, you are paying for exclusivity.

Had this happened before the Spring fair they would not have got a £3,000 order from me :evil:

Anyone else know of any images from DeMontfort that have been reproduced in ANY other format?

I have emailed them with what happened today and asked if they are aware of this.

I'll post the reply here ....................................... Stand by!
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John
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Post by John »

We have always found folk here in Ireland to be skeptical of limited edition prints, preferring a piece of less expensive original art to a limited edition of the same value.

Given the practise that you have highlighted, how can we convince our already reluctant customers that a limited edition is worth any more than the paper it's printed on?
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

Just found this on 'The Picture Business' website though.....

Washington Green introduces new transparency into numbering

Washington Green has announced it has introduced a new degree of transparency into its numbering system for its limited editions. Edition sizes will now be decided and printed as a single production process and artists proofs, printer proofs and international styles of editions have now ceased.

As Samantha Jackson, marketing manager, told Picture Business at Spring Fair Birmingham: “We want to be transparent and create an even playing field. Artist’s proofs are not an investment and there will be one straightforward edition size now.”


WOW! How do they stand on other formats though?
markw

Post by markw »

Well thats a new one - I shall be asking some fairly difficult questions of the DeMontfort rep next time she drops in.

I shall have to look up how the FATG stand on this - I have always told my customers that limited means the number of prints indicated on the print + a small percentage of A/ps. I havent been over inspired by Demontforts range for some time now - it may be time to move on. I wonder how many other publishers do this - I shall have to ask them.

Demontfort and Washington Green seem to ape each others actions so now doubt Demonfort will come up with some "transparent" line soon. The upshot of this must be that most retailers thought that they (the publishers) were working to the standards set by the FATG

I notice on DeMontforts web site that they go into great detail about all sorts of things - how its printed - what a giclee is etc - lots of clauses in terms of business - but nothing about the edition size and limits. Its also worth noting that Demontfort are planning to sell on line - nothing like having unhealthy competition from your supplier.
markw

Post by markw »

Limited edition prints

* Maximum edition size of 1950, including artists' proofs, but the Guild recommends edition size is kept below 1000.
* A limited edition print is based on an agreement between the licensor, usually the artist or artist's estate, as holder of the copyright, and the licensee, usually the publisher. The licensor agrees that no previous reproductions have been made and that neither he nor his heirs will allow an image to be published again. The publisher promises not to exceed the agreed print run, and all matrices and/or origination materials and overs have been or will be destroyed on completion of the print run/edition size.
* No part or whole of a print published as limited edition should be reproduced in any other form anywhere in the world, except for the sole purpose of promotion, eg in a brochure, sales literature or in a book.
* Specific documentation with full disclosure should accompany any print described as limited edition. Minimum standards of ink and paper must be met.
That seems to be fairly straightforward, they should'nt be doing it.
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

Well, the situation is that DeMobtfort gave not replied to my email yet.

But the Medici rep rang to say that they had dealt with the ARTIST. They hold the copyright grom June 05 - June 08.

Then what?

Seems like artists hawk their copyright around, but are publishers aware of this sort of practice.
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

Had an email from DeMontfort, they are looking into it. They are aware of Washington Green's new policy.

I have to say that I do not want to 'Bash' any particular publisher, I am just a bit (!) miffed at the limited edition market in general.

I treat customers as I would like to be treated, I expect my suppliers to treat me - their customer - the same, I simply will not fall for sales pitches/techniques - there is no eggshell behind my ears, I hatched a long time ago!

My wife's birthday on Saturday. Last month I commissioned Tim Bulmer, via DeMontfort, to do an original for her. I just sent a few photos and a story about her/us; all done on the QT. It arrived today and it is fantastic.
markw

Post by markw »

Roboframer
I agree that we shouldnt be bashing any particular publisher - However I do think we should be bashing the trade body that is supposed to be policing the rules. It rather proves the point that trade bodies can make rules but they arent law. Trading standards might be a better way of ensuring that you are getting what you think your paying for - but I suspect that unless you have a transparent declaration from the publisher - as with Washington Green - then you have nothing to fall back upon.

It seems odd that DeMontfort are members of the FATG and must be well aware of the rules determining limited edition prints. I wonder how many prints I have sold as limited editions that have also been reproduced as other editions or cards - lots of the Bulmer cartoons to lawyers. Think I might have to change the way I describe such items.
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Post by kev@frames »

After a while limited editions dont seem to mean anything to me - which is a shame. But long before the days of giclee and decent quality self published prints, there were local places who used to colour photocopy almost anything -we even saw a "signed" "Lenkovitch" photocopy in a plastic frame that had been in a house fire, brought to us to give to our restorer in the hope that this priceless A4 artifact could be redeemed.

Well, in these days, when the definition of honesty (as plucked from tony blair's magic hat) is grassing somebody up, we still thought long and hard whether to tell the Lenkovitch Foundation (who had always been very good to us) in the end we went to the local alleged fine art gallery that was selling them, and said "this is not on - give this customer her money back or we mention this to the appropriate people".

Someone had paid £300 for an A4 photocopy, with a BIRO signature purporting to be that of Lenkovitch, and numbered 2 out of 100 :shock:

It came down to a case of every time we got one of these in for framing, we'd tactfully mention to the customer that it was a fake. Then we have the gallery owner up whining and dripping and screaming under the auumption that "we are in the same game" - oh no, Nrs, we are not in the same game. you may think the world owes you a living, but you are destroying the prints market.

And Jack vettriano images- whats that about? It cost more to colour photocopy a jack vettriano card than it does to buy one retail, yet they still copy them and sell them, likewise John Miller.

You have to laugh, else you cry.

Its a shame, but a print is just a print these days, and you get more "transparency" and straightforward honesty from most self publishing local artists than they get credit for when it comes to their limited editions. I take my hat off to them for playing the game straight.

Like John in Ireland, most of the people round here seem to prefer an affordable original than a limited edition these days - luckily in west cornwall, everyone seems to have a paintbox in their pocket, and every home you go into has plenty of affordable originals.

A bit more help and clarity from the publishers wouldn't go amiss either, I just realised whilst writing this, that we haven't ordered any signed limited editions (other than a handful) from the big publishers in a couple of years. And most of our customers certainly are not minded to pay extra for them compared to an open edition.
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

I hear you Kev,

Jack Vetriano - yeah, I'll take his stuff from The Art Group, just so's I can knock spots off the framing in the furniture stores and garden centres around here that buy them in framed in garbage. His limited editions are basically signed open editions.

They are about as limited as my libido(!)

Beryl Cook can swivel too some of her high-end silkscreen limited editions from CCA galleries came out as greetings cards FIRST, plus place mats, coasters, whatever.

Yesterday I framed a very nice image from A.N Other publisher, very nice heavy paper, image about 18" square - looks all the world like an original, bar for the signature and some numbers in the margins. Artist? - no-one famous outside the world of the Spring/Autumn fair.

Then I came to price it - £89 trade, multiplied by 2.35 = £210.00 retail.

Today I went to an art exhibition in Chichester, saw better for the same, or not much more - originals

It gave me a bit of a reality check - the print simply IS NOT WORTH IT, why am I selling stuff I do not believe in? Especially when I cannot be sure if the same thing is gonna appear on a wine label, a calendar - whatever, or if the EXACT same thing - including the number, is going to appear in another country.

It's gonna stop!
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Post by John »

Roboframer wrote:Jack Vetriano - yeah, I'll take his stuff from The Art Group, just so's I can knock spots off the framing in the furniture stores and garden centres around here that buy them in framed in garbage.
Does that really work John?

Around here I'm afraid, we would be mostly judged on price in this situation, and instead of gaining a reputation for having higher quality standards, we would be judged as being too expensive. Many customers would simply see that we are selling exactly the same image as they can buy elsewhere for half the money. The quality of the framing would not enter the equation.

Experience has taught us to run a mile from prints that are being sold in those types of outlets, no matter how popular the subject.
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

Well yes, it does work - here anyway.

What usually happens is this, someone will want to order just ONE print from tha Art Group catalogue or maybe Winn Devon - whose prints you also see around furniture outlets, sometimes well overpriced in nothing frames.

So I'll make up the order with things that I KNOW will sell, 'Dance me to the end of Love' is one - I usually put it in A larson Juhl silver 'radiance' frame with a matching mount slip.

'Scirocco' I & II from Winn Devon are another two that I always sell.

I suppose location has a lot to do with it too - to be fair. But I have been told by people buying this stuff that they have seen it around but never looking as good as it does here.

Smarm, smarm!

What I will not get into is what seems to be the rage in these oulets at present - box canvas prints. I hate them!

Sometimes also, I can have, say, 'the singing butler' loose in a browser, someone will come along, choose their own frame and pay no more than they would at the other places, because they have chosen a contract moulding, not very nice to my eye, but I keep a range of this sort of stuff just for these ocassions.
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