Box board suitable as barrier paper? To good to be true?

[Not your average framer]

Hi All,

This week I spoke to a member of staff at well known U.K. framing materials distributor, who during the course of the conversation told me that box board is ideal as a barrier paper and will remain nuetral pH more or less indefinately due to the substantial quantity of china clay contained in this board. It's news to me, but is it true?

As I still mostly use 2.5mm and 3.0mm MDF (nice and stiff thank you), I always include some kind of barrier sheet, usually mountboard as I prefer not to hinge artwork from the window mount, (something thick enough with a hole in the middle ain't gonna sag), but for mouldings with not much rebate depth I use barrier paper and hinge to the window mount.

At 95 pence for a 44" x 32" sheet of box board, I wouldn't mind finding out if box board is a suitable and professionally acceptable product for such use. Somehow, it sounds too good to be true! Does anyone have any knowledge on this?
Cheers,
Mark

[Roboframer]

I do not know what box board is, but if it is not purpose made and archival then I would apply the 'If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is' rule.

Standard Mountboard is 'Neutral ph' so are some 'corricor' type backings. But neutral Ph is not acid-free.

3mm acid-free foam centre board is just as thick as a sheet of barrier paper and a sheet of 2.5mm MDF and makes a good combined backing/barrier for less labour - and cost.

(PS - the term 'acid free' is illegal - but I don't give one!)

[Dermot]

Given that box board could be used and is used in the food or medical industries for packaging the manufacture should have a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) for the product which should contain most if not all of the information you would need to make an informed decision about this product………….if the manufacture is of any repute they will have a web link to the MSDS details………..post the link here and we can then discuss the product in an informed manner…..

Ask for the MSDS details and if it cannot be supplied ……………………walk away …..

Rgs


Dermot

[Not your average framer]

John, box board is a solid white, very smooth china clay load board, which is available from just about every picture framing distributor. One of the best known ones is called Simwhite which is 600 microns thick (0.6mm).

Come to think about it "Art-bak conservation" which I use only on smaller size frames is much smoother on the white barrier side than the normal specifically named "barrier paper".

To be honest, I have never been quite sure that I much like the currently available range of backing boards which are nothing more than a fancy version of cardboard, even if they are pH neutral. The brown colouring which which is produced by a vegetable dye, tends to fade with time to grey and no longer looks as I like my work to be seen. It's not very stiff and the slight bow to flatten artwork strikes me as unlikely to be reliable over time.

On balance, I have to agree that foam core board is probably the most superior product. I got a sample of a very nice "solid" feeling foam core backing board from the Wessex stand at the NEC show, which appears to be denser than normal foam core, with a very nice "quality" looking brown kraft covered reverse side. Very expensive ideed, but it looks it too! I'm seriously thinking of stocking it for my conservation customers. It's beautifully finished and it really looks the business!
Cheers,
Mark

[Roboframer]

.... I got a sample of a very nice "solid" feeling foam core backing board from the Wessex stand at the NEC show, which appears to be denser than normal foam core, with a very nice "quality" looking brown kraft covered reverse side. Very expensive ideed, but it looks it too! I'm seriously thinking of stocking it for my conservation customers. It's beautifully finished and it really looks the business!
Cheers,
Mark

How expensive is expensive? Is Artcare Foamboard cheaper?

Why do frame backs need to be BROWN? Brown is not a nice colour!

[Not your average framer]

Hi John,

Why brown? Well, I was thinking more about the fact that the vegetable dyed surface paper over time can fade to grey and looks just like grey board, which looks rather cheap and nasty. A first sight a faded grey board could suggest to others that it is not a quality framing job. The customer might not realise that it has faded, but if taken to another (and probably well meaning) framer, adverse comments could easily result. Also brown backing boards and brown backing tape are what most customers consider as normal. I don't have a problem with white either, that looks quality too!

By the way the board in question is Wessex's KLF01 which at the time of the NEC show was listed in their catalogue at £5.78p for a 55" x 39" sheet. I would not normally consider paying that much, but it impressed me because of it's stiffness, it's finish and the fact that it is much more difficult to leave a thumb print impression in by squeezing it between thumb and fingers. As you may have already worked out stiffness of backing boards is a bit of a big thing with me. I think it is a primary requirement!

Cheers,
Mark

[markw]

JYAF - when customers start hanging frames back to front - I will worry about brown backs going grey. If you consider stiffness to be a important factor - then the slight curve on artcore, and derivates, should meet your requirements. The curve is there becuase of the tension created by laminating a surface board - I suspect a happy accident. I doubt that this curve will decrease with time - my experience in the workshop is that boards left out of the pack will bow to an extreme point making them quite difficult to use.

whilst the backing board is important, artbak (etc) and foamcore are a vast improvement on the old SBS - no dust - easy to cut - relatively cheap - and even in its cheapest form almost inert compared to the SBS.

[Not your average framer]

I made some phone calls today and got some more specific answers about box board today. First, the distributor I spoke to originally says, yes you can use box board as a barrier paper, but it does not officially comply with fine art trade guild standards as it is not manufactured specifically to do so.

A few other things which have been established:

1. It is reasonable to assume that box board obtained from a picture framing distributor should be neutral pH, but box board obtained from a packaging supplier might not neccesarily be so too, as the main requirement is a smooth white printable surface.

2. The china clay is not uniformly distributed through out the board material, but is applied to one or both surfaces according to the specification. If only one side is silky smooth that's the side with the china clay. The neutral pH varieties of box board can become more acidic within the core material, but the china clay surface will remain protected for a substantially long period. The china clay treated surface should be placed towards the artwork, if used as a barrier paper.

3. I've been told that quite a few well respected framers used box board as a barrier paper for non-conservation work, to address the acidity issues arising from non-neutral pH backing boards, MDF being an obvious one as in contains completely un-treated wood pulp / fragments.

4. China clay is know by chemists and chemical engineers as kaolin and is a major ingredient in some medicines for upset stomachs and excess digestive acid problems. It is also used in supermarket sliced with bread because it's alkiline properities extend the shelf life of the bread. It is most definately alkaline!

5. It has been put to me that some of the neutral pH backing boards which include an intergal barrier paper actually use (you've guessed it) china clay coated neutral ph paper or box board as the barrier paper. However this is quite a different application compared to it's use with MDF as these custom produced boards are manufacured with all neutral ph materials and no un-treated wood pulp / fragments as in MDF. Clearly as part of a completely neutral pH backing board the risk of acid generation from lignen is smaller that of MDF.

My own conclusions are that it's better than nothing as a barrier paper, but is not justified as fit for pupose in any conservation appications, because the quantity of alkaline in the material is not guaranteed or evenly distributed and as such does not offer any useful specified performance parameters. Both mountboard and barrier paper have more relevent specifications.
Cheers,
Mark

[Merlin]

Not really sure where this thread is going. Unless I have missed something.

All my customers prefer the front of the piece of work, Yes professionally, I make the back neat and tidy as well.

As for barrier paper. I use Colourmount acid free barrier paper which is 450 micron thick and costs £30 per 25 sheets.

As for the backing, anything up to 24 x 30 inch then I use ARTCOR and have had no problem with it not being sturdy enough for the job in hand.
Over 24 x 30 then I use 3mm MDF, but make sure that I put the barrier paper in between the art work and the MDF.

[markw]

Merlin has written exactly my thoughts - The back should look neat and tidy - and as long as you have used the relavant quality materials it will always do the job intended. The only criticism I have is when framers just regard the back of the frame as an useen area where they can use any old junk - its obvious from this thread that the participants have given a great deal of thought to the quality of the whole job.

[SquareFrames]

Hi,

I waited to see where this thread was heading, and like Merlin and Markw, my customers prefer to look at the front of the item, and yes the back has to be finished off neat, tidy and in a professional way. Unlike Merlin, I always use the same board as my barrier board as my top mount, for example = if I use 1400 micron Arqadia Conservation board for my mount, the barrier board / undermount is exactly the same = 1400 microns, and so on. Then use 2mm MDF for up to approx 24 x 20, and 3mm for over and above that size.

Steven

[osgood]

A good option for a barrier is Mylar. It is widely used for encapsulation and mounting and is a preservation quality material.
I don't know what "boxboard" is, but I would be very reluctant to take the word of a supplier of any product as being pres/cons quality, especially if they admit it does not comply with fine art trade guild standards standards!

1. It is reasonable to assume that box board obtained from a picture framing distributor should be neutral pH, but box board obtained from a packaging supplier might not neccesarily be so too, as the main requirement is a smooth white printable surface.

We should never "assume" anything! Are you implying that a product magically changes properties when sold by a framing supplier?

I also read (with great alarm) the mention of "MDF" used as backing in the same frame as "barrier paper". There doesn't seem to be much point in using a barrier in a frame that has MDF in it. MDF is loaded with acid and if it is included in the frame package, then huge quantities of acid is also included.
Apart from the acid, MDF absorbs moisture out of the atmosphere and mould grows inside and outside very quickly. Mould is not good! If you have a dry atmosphere then only the acid is a problem.
In my opinion (and I'm not alone here) MDF has no place in preservation framing and should only be used for temporary framing. Then again, why would you use it when there are other substitutes like foamboard and Coroplast available.
I am amazed that Fine Art Trade Guild recommends MDF in their Conservation and Museum level of framing. In my opinion, this recommendation should be reconsidered.

[Roboframer]

Ormond

Here here.... (or is that 'hear hear'? - I get confused)

I believe UK framers are (generally) behind the times, MDF and SBS are for dinosaurs, if you are conscientious enough to put a flimsy 'barrier' between it and the artwork (and most are not) then all you are doing is delaying the inevitable destruction CAUSED BY YOUR MATERIALS AND METHODS.

450 micron colourmount? waste of time! Playing with conservation. That is like saying; - JUST like saying that standard mountboard is OK for conservation because it has an acid free backing paper.

Corricor and artbak type stuff Ph neutral? WHOOPEE!

Someone sticks a layer of acid free paper to a non-acid-free board and calls it 'conservation quality' board ..... WRONG!

Look to the States, they are making us look like rookies.

In this day and age there is no excuse for adding ANYTHING to the frame package that self-destructs.

Hey - bar maybe the frame itself - it's made of wood!!!!

You know what - I should shut up and make you all carry on making me look good!

[osgood]

John,

Well said! Perhaps you could speak to the people at Fine Art Trade Guild about modifying their recommendation of MDF. If they continue to promote it, framers will continue to use it and UK framers will lag further and further behind the rest of the world.

I hope all framers who are behind the times, catch up very quickly.

Look to the States, they are making us look like rookies.

Aussie framers are also making you look like rookies! Many Aussie framers dispensed compeletely with MDF many years ago.
A lot of us keep up to date with the best materials and methods, no matter where the knowledge comes from!

[markw]

This thread was started by Notyouraverageframer discussing the merits of "cheap" buffered board. We now have framers talking about professional and personal commitment to high standards - what a change in direction. I agree wholeheartedly with Roboframer - I would make the point that as far as the Artbak and other corrugated board derivatives are concerned the lined versions, or conservation versions of this product are a huge leap forward from MDF and if used in everyday framing application take the quality of framing forward dramatically. Used with a conservation grade mount and undermount as well as barrier board you are getting a reliably consistent conservation package. I would also agree that with the far superior materials available mdf should be seen as a less than acceptable material - but then I would also put Gummed Tape into the same bracket.
I dont drop below using conservation grade materials for all framing but I compete with framers who, quite frankly, will put any old rubbish in the frame. I hope my customers appreciate the difference, but I know that most of the time they wouldnt be able to tell until it was too late.

[Dermot]

Below is a link to a MSDS sheet for MDF………………..apart from using it for framing ………think about the possible health and safety implications………..

Anyone who is suggesting that MDF should be used around a framing shop should consider their legal position and the implications they are possible exposing themselves to by giving this sort of advice……..

In my book MDF is today’s equivalent of asbestos…….

With the limited health and safety facilities for example “controlled extraction of fumes and dust” that most framing shops can provide MDF is a silly product to have around…..

http://www.greatlakesmdf.com/pdfs/GL%20MSDS.pdf

Dermot

PS
The US stopped using MDF in framing shops mainly for Health and Safety…………. the knock on effect was that it is good “Preservation” Framing practice…….……

[Not your average framer]

I like others have noticed how this thread has broadened to cover backing boards, etc. I don't see this as being a problem, in fact we are discussing some of the most important issues in framing today.

I think, I would like to clarify that I don't use MDF for conservation framing at all, but I do used MDF on many non-conservation jobs. I do however always use mountbard or barrier between the art and the MDF. Yes, it is protection which lasts for a certain length of time, but this is because I feel to do any less makes a nonsense of why I wanted to be a framer.

For most of my conservation jobs I use conservatek backing board, it's well respected and I can get it at the drop of a hat from my local suppliers without having to buy a box full. I also use the budget fluted-core board from Ashworth and Thompson which is £1 a sheet in a 30 sheet box for quite a few of the smaller non-conservation jobs. Many of the larger ones are in 2.5mm MDF and some a even in 3mm MDF if I think it needs it.

Most jobs are framed in 2mm glass and larger areas of glass can call for thicker glass, greater support behind 2mm glass or both. I was quite suprised just how many framers are using foam-core for backing - I had no idea it would be some many! Whilst I do admit that in some areas I may perhaps be a bit of a dinosaur, discussions like this one have made me reconsider my own thoughts and the ways I do things. Yes, I am thinking of making a few changes too! Someone said it's good to talk, it's also very helpful to listen too!
Thanks to All,
Mark

[Roboframer]

I have 3 levels of framing
- couldn't care less about the FATG's levels

1. Active conservation

2. Passive conservation

3. Non - conservation

Level 3 is at customer's request and/or against our advice. E.g. a poster aginst the glass.

Level 2 is rarely used as we mount and back pretty much everything with artcare. You could argue that not all our jobs fall into the first two categories as we do not use UV glass as standard (we do on everything for sale in the shop though) but they do offer protection.

In other words, with materials available today, and for the cost of them, i do not see any reason for putting something which will self-destruct next to ANYTHING.

To anyone using an acid free barrier and MDF or a brown fluted board I would say this. Add the cost of the square foot price of the two boards, compare that cost to 3 or 5mm acid fre foam board. Also compare it to the cost of ARTCARE foam board. If the cost is more than ordinary acid free foamboard, it won't be much, it may well be more than the cost of artcare foamboard though.

BUT if you use either as a combined under-mount/frame backing - then also deduct a bit of labour. Looks good and is lighter too.

[markw]

Roboframer - you obviously care about quality - The FATG standards are a realistic attempt to set a benchmark - I would rather work with the FATG to raise standards within our industry than just go my own way. If FATG standards were accepted and worked to by more framers we would start to drive out the cowboys who give us all a bad name.

[James Miller]

Plenty of food for thought here, as the thread expands to cover related topics.

The original commentary was about the word "barrier". In the USA, professional conservators, FACTS, and PPFA agree that glass and metal are the only two materials suitable as absolute barriers against chemical migration.

It is true that paper boards and plastics, such as polyester film and acrylic sheets, provide various levels of protection against chemical migration. But their action is more of a filter than a barrier. That is, some chemicals might eventually penetrate materials other than glass and metal; even a thick sheet of acrylic.

The difference may be irrelevent in most framing situations, but I think it is useful to understand the distinction between a barrier and a filter.