The Framers Forum

Had a man in my shop the other day - Gave me a leaflet from the PPL. He also added that he could hear a radio in the background (radio 4 - on very quietly in my workshop - along a 7' corridor).

Recieved a bill for just under £200 today - license and surcharge for being caught. So to listen on my own to Radio 4 in my workshop I need PPL licence and PRS (thats another £150) licence - just incase they play any music that my customers might just overhear - plain daft. Called the FSB legal helpline - they recomend I pay as I dont have a leg to stand on.

I would challenge it:

Their website says "playing music and music videos".

You were listening to a talk station in a non public area.

The FSB probably don't want to get involved as it would take up a lot of their time and resources.

Strike me pink.....you have to have a license to listen to the wireless??? That went out when we changed from horse and cart to motorised transport!

Tell em to get nicked, they were hearing the neighbours wireless!

Are they going to slap you in the slammer for listening to the wireless, if you don't pay?

A couple of weeks ago I had a call from the PRS wanting to know if we played music in the shop. I told the guy that it was none of his business and that I did not appreciate cold callers and would be reporting his company to the Telephone Preference Service for a breach of the TPS rules.

I expect we will be having a visit any day now.

However, we only play Royalty Free Radio - http://www.rfmradio.co.uk/

I'm assuming this is a yearly fee ?

Bagpuss

There is no escape, unless you pay the fee to have royalty free radio, or unless you come under the category of a home office. Even then, if it is available for other employees, or visitors then you must pay.

I have considered some sort of device for the shop door, that switches off the music when a customer comes in!

Just think of it as another tax . . . . .

I wouldn't give them a penny and let them do their worst. If it came to court, they would have to prove that a customer had been in the shop and actually heard and derived enjoyment from the broadcast. Then they would have to find the said customer and haul him up as a witness. They rely on people being intimidated and coughing up. If the case was chucked out, you would have a very good case to claim loss of earnings and general embuggerance cost from them afterwards.

prospero wrote: general embuggerance

What a fantastic turn of phrase. Made me smile. I will have to think of a way of using that in a conversation today.

I can better that, my workshop is seperate from my gallery/shop so I have a camera system rigged to an old portable t.v. Because it could be tuned to recieve programmes which it isnt I had to buy a coloured tv licence and pay £150 fine as well. If I had it on to listen to the programmes would I need a ppl licence as well ?

topbrand wrote:I can better that, my workshop is seperate from my gallery/shop so I have a camera system rigged to an old portable t.v. Because it could be tuned to recieve programmes which it isnt I had to buy a coloured tv licence and pay £150 fine as well. If I had it on to listen to the programmes would I need a ppl licence as well ?

Assuming that the portable does not have a digital tuner built in, it won't be to long before the analogue service is phased out and the set will therefore be incapable of receiving transmissions. So you won't need a license. In the meantime, you might be able to get a local techhead to disable the tuner.

I have a TV in the workshop and you can hear it in the shop. But I usually turn the sound down when someone comes in. As for the picture, the screen is so mucky that you can't really see it anyway.

Its funny isn't it. If an artist has some one photocopy his or her work and sell them on ebay or on a market stall, or even in some shops we rightly stamp our feet and complain that the artist and the genuine retailers are being ripped off and are pleased when the rip off merchants are caught.

However, when we are asked to pay these two fees, which goes to the artists performing or the writers of the music we complain. I wouldn't ignore the demands as round here several retailers have been fined for refusing to buy the licenses. £1,500 seems to be the norm.

Take a look at the local paper

http://www.lep.co.uk/wlep_search_elemen ... itted=true


I think that one of the fees pay the songwriter and the other pay the performers. I detest paying the fees as much as anyone else, but since the inroduction of Spotify I rarely but any music for the shop now.

The other thing to consider is if you play any BBC video on your computer in the shop then you are liable to pay a TV license too. I am not sure if this applies just to the Beeb or to any commercial video. Its a git isn't it!

This is where it gets complicated isn't it? I'm half-listening to a doco about Oliver Cromwell at the mo. If a customer came in, they might hear it too. But they wouldn't hear all of it, or even pay full attention to it. So do I have to keep a log of how long the customer was exposed to this entertainment? And ask them how much attention they were devoting to it? 20%? 30%? And reinburse the History Channel pro-rata? Maybe Big Ollie wants a cut too. Too bad, he's brown bread.

If I were playing music in the shop with the sole intention of providing an ambience for customers, then I would have no problem in paying a license fee. But I don't.


Whoops! There has just been an advert on for Heinz soup. On the same principle, I am now providing advertising for Heinz. When do I get paid?

Given the choice I would listen to Radio 4 - Obviously I don't as I haven't purchased a licence to do so. I am listening to the only legitimate sound available without the PPL and PRS feeling they can turn me upside down and empty my pockets - rfmradio.co.uk - I have paid them a small fee for the privilege (ad free version). My workshop is now full of music that can be easily heard in the shop - and I await the arrival of both PRS and PPL so that I can tell them to go **** themselves.

What sort of music does rfm radio play? is it ok, or does it make you want to slit your wrists like lift muzak?

I like R4 so its hell - but I wont let these bodies take me for a ride. Its background and I now really appreciate radio 4 as I drive home.

Mark, according to the PPL website you can legally listen to Radio 4 through a personal headset. Turn it up and it will drown out the EUROPAP.

what if you give a customer a lift home and have the radio on?

This is crazy isn't it? NOBODY (person) has to pay a fee to have a radio and listen to its content. Yet it is being argued that a licence is necessary to listen to said radio by all those people who can listen to it for free. if they wandered in to the shop with a ghettoblaster playing music, would they have to pay because they were broadcasting? No of course not.

It is clearly illegal to charge propeiotors for broadcasting radio when the broadcasters have already paid the fees themselves. This license is meant for playing CD's etc to people who amble aimlessly around pretending they are going to buy something until the rain stops.

It needs challenging!!!

The music people make money from selling their CD's, DVD's. A fee for anyone to listen to it in addition to all the other money they get is insane.

It all boils down to a disgusting five letter word - GREED!

I can't get my head around the notion that this is right and perfectly acceptable.

At a push, I suppose I could live with the music industry, in the guise of the PPL/PRS, having the cheek to expect me to expose their product to my customers for free, and that I should, at my own expense, provide the equipment to do so. After all they could argue that both parties are benefiting to some extent, even though, I believe, the balance is much more in their favour.

But my mind just boggles at the idea that I should have to pay for the privilege of promoting their wares. And I really cannot cope with the doublethink that is involved in accepting that this is right on any level.

When I first heard of the PRS and their aims, I genuinely thought that it was a hoax. Sure, they might be able to scam a few quit out of the gullible for a while, but of course they would eventually get caught and shut down by the authorities. Then a few years ago they visited an independent music shop on our street and insisted that they had to pay up. Yes, that's right, an independent music shop dedicated to the promotion and sale of the product of the music industry, an industry that the PRS supposedly represented. Has the world gone insane? Do people really think this is quite okay?

The music shop is no more.