5 foot x 6 foot silver frame

[Bagel Framer]

Hi all,

I've been asked to quote for a 5 foot x 6 foot frame in silver (no glass, just the frame).

How much would you all look to charge for this please?

For a start I'm not going to be able to clamp it as my clamp won't go that big...!

Thanks,

Sean

[YPF]

Have you got a particular moulding in mind? Are you providing the backing?

[prospero]

They all have 4 corners. You are just using more moulding


But.... On big frames you do have to consider a few things. Wastage. You are going to need 4 lengths. That could be 40ft. Then you have to ensure you have no flaws in the cut rails. If there is a ding in the middle of a complete length, there is no way you can cut round it. So you could end up buying twice as much to make one frame. You have to charge for the amount of moulding you consume. Not what ends up in the final frame.

Putting together a big frame is not as simple as an average sized one. The sheer bulk of the moulding makes handling while joining problematic. You need lots of space and preferably an extra pair of hands.

If I were doing it I would cut biscuit slots in the corners. Dry fit the whole thing on a flat surface and put a strap clamp round it. This works better with scoop back mouldings - reverse sections are trickier. Check that the corners meet OK and it isn't twisted. If all is fine, glue up all 4 corners at once and re-clamp. Then add the fastenings. Can be v-nails, although sometimes the moulding can be too big for the pinner and I either fix L plates on the back or even put big woodscrews across the corners. The last option only really applies to frames that are going to be hand-finished. The combination of biscuits and firm clamping will make a very strong frame. I have one in the shop at the moment that I unfortunately made wrong size. I haven't managed to break it down yet.

It depends a lot on the style of moulding. A description would be handy.

[JFeig]

when I have an oversized frame to make, I generally do not charge more for the frame (per ft). I do however, charge extra for fitting ( assembly and the like). I also charge extra for antique frames and reused frames.


Today I have a 48"x96" frame to assemble.

[Bagel Framer]

Hi all,

This is now back on as the lady who the frame for came round last night and has chosen two mouldings for quotation:

Lion's L1444

Wessex's WF092

I'm going to need a biscuit joiner and a strap clamp ansd obviously can't charge the customer for these.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a "cheap" biscuit joiner and a strap clamp suitable to produce this frame?

(I'm not providing the backing on this as she doen't need any - she justs wants a frame).

Thanks,

Sean

[Nogbad]

If I was you I would use Lions chop service not sure if Lion route the corners for plastic wedges, ask if they do. Lion also sell band clamps 7m is the biggest lion number is 1017 hopefully glue clamp job done time for a cup of tea.

[REM]

Hi Sean,
Toolbay Direct do a 7m heavy duty band clamp for £32.40, if that is any help.

Good luck Ross.

[prospero]

Hi Sean

The Wessex one looks promising. I wouldn't bother with the biscuits as the moulding in not quite wide enough to get one in.

As it has a flat back, this makes strap clamping easier. Screwfix do ratchet tie-downs. The sort you use for securing loads on a trailer or roof-rack. You should be able to get them from other places.

You might just be able to do it without clamping. Easier if you have an assistant to help manouver the thing about until you get 4 corners pinned.
But in any case, I would recommend screwing a 3" L plate to each corner, before the glue sets. Before you fix them, turn then face down on a scrap of wood and give them a swift bang on the corner with the ball end of a hammer. This gives a bit of bias and crimps the face side of the moulding together as you screw them down.

Any idea if the customer is going to put glass in the frame? Not really your problem if the customer wants to do their own thing. But if by any chance they do, then I have doubts as to whether the frame has got enough meat in it.

[JFeig]

You could also combine 2 shorter straps together......................

[Nigel Nobody]

When I have to make large frames like this, I underpin the joints in the same way as I would with a smaller frame with a slight variation.
Because it is a large frame and I work alone and have to manhandle the frame around the underpinner myself, this can put strain on a freshly made joint and cause it to flex and result in a joint that is not tight. To prevent that happening, I join a long and a short - twice and leave them overnight to allow the PVA to dry. Next day, early make the third joint and leave it for four to six hours before making the final joint.

If you don't have strap clamps or they won't work on that profile, there is another way to pull the to of the joint together reasonably firmly until the glue sets.
Cut a triangle of clear plastic about 12 inches on the two short sides. Tear off about 20 inches of masking tape or packaging tape and place it across the middle of the plastic, parallel to the long side, so an equal amount of tape protrudes past the plastic. Pick up the two ends of the tape, with the plastic attached and place the plastic over the joint, making sure that a small amount of plastic overlaps the back of the moulding, then stick the ends of the tape to the back of the moulding.
Cut another length of the tape and sit on the plastic, the same way as before, then wrap one end of the tape over the edge and stick it to the back of the moulding and press it on hard. You will have one free end of tape, so pull quite a bit of tension on that end and wrap it under the moulding and stick it onto the back. Repeat, with more pieces of tape. The more pieces of tape, the stronger the clamping effect will be.

The plastic is used, just to prevent the tape sticking to any finished surfaces of the moulding. When the joint sets, remove the tape from the back of the joint, taking the plastic with it.

Nothing beats a mechanical clamp like a strap clamp, but in an emergency, this method works pretty well.

[Graysalchemy]

I would also be concerned with what she is putting in it. If it is a canvas then it would probably be ok but if glass was going in or worse a mirror I would want a heavier frame.

Ratchet straps are good for big frames plus L brackets to fix however I would try underpinning or biscuit joint as it will provide more support especially if there is weight otherwise the frame my split open on the joints, If you suspect the frame is going to have glass or mirror in it then I would advise a frame of at lest 80mm which would need to be biscuit jointed or underpinned as well as L brackets.

Big frames are not easy and can be more hassle than they are worth, having said that if it is rim only then that is less bother.

With regards to pricing I agree with prospero, calculate all your material costs multiply by your mark up and if you charge out your time add that as well.


Finally if you are straping the frame then check the squareness of the frame with a set square and also measure the diaganals they should be equal if the frame is square.


Good luck

AG

[Bagel Framer]

Hi,

Thanks for the advice thus far - the lady isn't putting anything in the frame. She's painting a piece of mdf a bright blue colour which is secured to the wall and the frame is to go round the mdf. She then plans to put other smaller frames in the big frame. The big frame will be hung on the wall using some industrial aluminium hangers that interlock / hang on each other.

I personally prefer Wessex's WF092 as I won't have the profile clash that Lion's will bring (though she's not bothered about that). However, I'm not far from Lion south so I can go in a select the lengths if it comes to it.

It's also dawned on me that I use Lion's 7m clamp regularly so that's a bonus - right under you nose and all that...!

Sean